Grip When Using Knife with Finger Choil

[Saucerito]

When using a knife with a finger choil that also allows a full grip on the handle, do you naturally grip using the choil or not?

If a knife has a choil, I naturally tend to use it so I have more control and feel of where the sharpened edge ends. I usually grip the Delica using the faux-choil too. In my experience, most Spyderco knives with finger choils are more comfortable this way and I feel they are often designed to be used primarily with the choil. One notable exception for me, however, is the Manix 2. Many on here rave about the ergonomics of the Manix 2, but I only experience this when gripped behind the choil. My hand becomes very cramped when using the choil because of the point on the handle of the Manix. The Delica point, which many complain about, does not bother me at all. The reason I ask the original question is that I'm thinking many people's complaints/praises of knife grip ergonomics depend on their "natural" grip, which usually isn't mentioned in the forum.

[vivi]

When using a knife with a finger choil that also allows a full grip on the handle, do you naturally grip using the choil or not?

No.

It's less comfortable for me, particularly with designs that have thumb ramps

I don't find myself needing extra control on a 3-4" blade pocket knife. I'm used to working with 10" blades at work, so even something like a Resilience feels quite nimble in hand.


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As far as the Manix / mini Manix go, any time I use the choil on that design, my thumb goes past the point on the spine. My thumb is too long to want to use the thumb ramp and index choil at the same time. It's painful for any serious cutting.

[Bemo]

I think you'll find all kinds of opinions on this that correlate with hand size. Vivi's thumb is probably the same size as my big toe. So my medium-small hands means I gravitate to choils and tend to use them if they're available. But it also depends on the cutting task. Cutting cardboard where I almost exclusively use a hammer grip, no I don't use the choil.

[kennethsime]

If the knife has a choil, it’s often most comfortable for me to utilize it. I like being right behind the edge.

I am really liking knives with no choil these days, specifically when they have a “handle-forward” design like the Tenacious and Rock Jumper. You get right behind the edge, but also get to utilize a hammer grip.

FWIW, I usually wear XL gloves - 2XL if they come from Europe.

[JoviAl]

I always use a finger choil if a knife has one, but only because my hand feels weirdly distant from the cutting edge if I don’t. I’m neither for nor against choils

[TkoK83Spy]

There's been plenty of threads on this topic over the time I've been around here. They tend to get a bit interesting when the choil lovers vs haters get going. Usually has to deal with losing cutting edge.

[Wartstein]

I like choils on some Spydies (Manix, Stretch 1), but would not necessarily need them on others.

As Rick hinted: I am one of those who values a good amount of cutting edge on an all purpose, universal, do it all EDC folder (food prep on the go included) and a choil tends to shorten the available edge indeed. A long edge makes some cuts more efficient and stays sharp longer.
I like choils on more "specialized" knives or if it still leaves enough actual edge (Stretch XL...)

Anyway, on the question: Most of the times I do use a choil when it´s there - but like you, OP., I also choke up on the Delica/Endura ricasso (works even better than most choils for me) or even on the very edge (one won´t get cut, even on a very sharp edge, if done rightly) if I don´t need all of that edge for a certain cut.

The Delica has very good ergos indeed also for my hands (also wearing XL gloves)

For me it is more about a subtle feel of "balance" that tends to be better when gripping a knife more forward.

I have to say though: I normally do not put my thumb on the hump / spine of the blade (but on the side/flat), and so that hump or where it sits relatively to my thumb is not a concern of mine,

[RugerNurse]

I like the ergos of the Manix when not using the choil. It has a little finger guard when you done. Otherwise I’ve learned to like choils even though I’d prefer knives to not have them.

[Guts]

If it has one I use it, thumb ramp or no. If it doesn't have one, I wish it did (Delica/Endela/etc) or at least had a "handle forward" design like the Rock/LeafJumper. I feel like the handle forward design kinda makes the finger choil almost pointless though. At least for me, they both accomplish the same thing, getting to choke up on the blade as far as possible, but one method doesn't sacrifice overall cutting edge length and the other does while being larger on average in comparison. For example, I don't know if it counts as one but the Tenacious is basically a handle forward design in my eyes, yet has **** near the same cutting edge length as the Manix XL, but in a smaller overall package.

Majority of my Spyderco's have the 50/50 choil and I love it and prefer it over other mfg's designs, but I can't help but feel like the 50/50 designs could also work as a handle forward design while getting more cutting edge in exchange.

[kennethsime]

…At least for me, they both accomplish the same thing, getting to choke up on the blade as far as possible…

I think the key difference for me is that the choil offers more control at the tip of the blade, and the handle-forward design offers more leverage at the heel. In other words, the choil makes it easier to “point” with the knife, the handle-forward design makes it easier to slash away with confidence.

[spydergoat]

I tend not to use it except for on my dragonfly 2

[Saucerito]

I also feel like my thumb needs to move down on the blade when using the choil on the Manix, and I don’t have hands nearly as large as Vivi.

To me, though, using the choil has less to do with control of the blade as it does with feel for the end of the sharpened edge. There’s nothing worse than catching the Ricasso or choil on something I’m cutting.

Also, this thread isn’t meant to be a choil vs no choil debate. I was just curious whether or not people choose not to use the choil when present (and it seems like there is a mixed bag). I’ve come to enjoy designs with and without choils although there are some designs I wish were handle forward or just had a shorter handle as I value carry-ability a lot.

[Coastal]

I had to check. I always just pick up a knife and use it without thinking too much.

Before reading the question I'd have said I never use a choil if it's possible to avoid it. The question made me wonder, so I grabbed a few knives to see. The smallest knives I have a chance of barely getting four fingers around are the Chaparral and UKPK and, with those, I'm most comfortable using the choil.

As soon as a knife is big enough to easily grip the entire handle -- Manix, Military, PM2 -- that's what I do.

More and more, I enjoy and admire choilless designs like the Resilience and Tenacious. In fact, those two knives are pretty much perfect for me.

[Doc Dan]

I am okay with the choil on the Dragonfly and Cat, less so with the one on the Military 1. I can't stand them on other knives and wish they'd leave them off. The worst is the Native 5, which has to be used because the knife is so short. However, the handle is weird in my hand and that pointy thing in front of the choil just makes it that much more uncomfortable. If they moved that thing forward and did away with the choil it would fix everything.

[cjk]

I like knives with choils. I like knives without choils. I like knives. I'm on team "average hands". The choil makes for a locked in grip area despite the grippiness (or lack thereof) on the rest of the handle.

For example, a Native 5 works way better with a smooth handle than a Delica does.

I like that both choiled and non-choiled designs exist. The smaller the knife, the more useful the choil is to me.

I find that the Rockjumper handle is truly superb because I don't even notice it. It's not pokey or objectionable at all. It doesn't seem to need to be consciously gripped in a particular way. I just pull it out of my pocket, open it, use it, then put it away. two thumbs up. It's so great, I often overlook it.

[Shmohawk]

Unless I'm cutting in a way that specifically necessitates a different grip, I generally use the choil.
I find the way most knives that I have fit in my hand, using the choil angles the blade down and the handle up into my thenar eminence providing a more secure grip and better angle for cutting.
It's slight but feels significantly better to me. So much so that I find when I'm picking out a knife for general carry I hesitate to choose a choilless knife. And, I hesitate to purchase knives without choils unless there's some other reason I want that specific knife. I know that some here use the ricasso/finger guard as a choil, and I do that when necessary, I just find an actual choil to be more comfortable, secure and offer more control.

All that having been said, I do have a Leafjumper enroute to me because I'm am addict and need my new knife fix.

[HolySteel]

Depends on the knife and probably each person's preference. This Superleaf is ergonomically perfect for my hand, with or without the choil, so it's ready for almost any task. Other knives are not-so-great in either position.

[Coastal]

"...the choil angles the blade down and the handle up into my thenar eminence providing a more secure grip and better angle for cutting."

In case you didn't understand what Shmohawk meant:

"The thenar eminence is located on the radial portion of the volar hand at the base of the first digit (thumb). The thenar eminence is composed of three muscles that control the movements of the thumb: abductor pollicis brevis (APB), flexor pollicis brevis (FPB), and the opponens pollicis."

[HolySteel]

"...the choil angles the blade down and the handle up into my thenar eminence providing a more secure grip and better angle for cutting."

In case you didn't understand what Shmohawk meant:

"The thenar eminence is located on the radial portion of the volar hand at the base of the first digit (thumb). The thenar eminence is composed of three muscles that control the movements of the thumb: abductor pollicis brevis (APB), flexor pollicis brevis (FPB), and the opponens pollicis."

I see where I screwed up

[Coastal]

I see where I screwed up

Hahaha! I didn't literally mean YOU.