What’s The Hold-Up with Magna-Cut?

[electro-static]

Spyderco was one of the first companies to announce magna-cut production models (the native salt 5 in magna-cut), and one of the first to release production blades in the form of the mules. 6 months later we have not seen anything drop (a few other companies have since released new knives in it) , I was wondering if there is a reason for the delay besides just just gearing up for production. I know that getting it above 63 consistently with factory HT is difficult, and most companies are running it at 60-62. My question would be: Is spyderco cooking up a custom protocol to put ther magna-cut ahead of the pack?

[Evil D]

You may have answered the question yourself, maybe they're dialing in the heat treat. The Mule still serves as a testbed and with there apparently being some debate about what the best HRC is for this steel maybe they're tweaking production a bit. Could also just be supply and demand. Like you said, other companies may be cranking them out but if they're at less desirable heat treats then they're only bringing the name to market first and not the true performance. I'd rather wait than buy a sub par product.

[ladybug93]

it's definitely a head scratcher when even case released a fat carbon frame lock flipper exclusive on bearings and with magnacut and we're still waiting to see what spyderco is going to do. it feels like a bizarro world.

[electro-static]

You may have answered the question yourself, maybe they're dialing in the heat treat. The Mule still serves as a testbed and with there apparently being some debate about what the best HRC is for this steel maybe they're tweaking production a bit. Could also just be supply and demand. Like you said, other companies may be cranking them out but if they're at less desirable heat treats then they're only bringing the name to market first and not the true performance. I'd rather wait than buy a sub par product.

I wonder if they are either trying to optimize it for stainlesness, or to match the performance of their 4V, or both. Putting it in a salt knife is really ambitious.

[phaust]

I doubt it has anything to do with the steel or heat treating. That would've all been done before the announcement. The only reason for an update is if something was discovered late.

Looking to the obvious rather than the unlikely, over the last 2+ years Spyderco has said they can't handle the demand for their knives. Every company is in a crunch. Checking out what's available on Spyderco.com, there are literally no Native versions in stock, the Native Chief isn't in stock, no Manixes is in stock, one Lil Native version is in stock (dropped recently), no Para 3s, no PM2s except the Colorado sprint, no Millie's, .... It's obvious the US factory can't keep up (as they've said), and that would be my guess. It's pretty unlikely the steel is the cause when Natives with other steels are also MIA.

[ladybug93]

i think they realized they devoted too many resources to exclusives a couple of years ago and they did a good job of finally getting some of the production back in stock for a few months. more products are still rolling in every week and lot of those models are available at other online retailers, so it's not like they aren't out there at all. it also makes sense that they would focus on restocking those online retailers instead of their own online store. most people use those retailers and spyderco needs their products out there selling instead of at their own store for msrp only.

we have to remember that these kinds of changes are like steering a ship. they take time to show up for the end user and spyderco clearly still has exclusives they have to get to, since they are still being released as well. also, spyderco is working on expanding their golden factory, so we might see it get even slower before it can actually really speed up.

i get frustrated just like everyone else, but i think we need to remember to be patient. it's easy to think of spyderco as a huge company because they have factories all around the world making knives and because they are so popular, but it's really a small company with a very large reach. it make sense that it's tough to keep up with demand. i'm just glad they keep pushing and innovating and i hope they stop messing around with these crazy price increases that feel like a departure from the demographic they always targeted in the past.

[electro-static]

i think they realized they devoted too many resources to exclusives a couple of years ago and they did a good job of finally getting some of the production back in stock for a few months. more products are still rolling in every week and lot of those models are available at other online retailers, so it's not like they aren't out there at all. it also makes sense that they would focus on restocking those online retailers instead of their own online store. most people use those retailers and spyderco needs their products out there selling instead of at their own store for msrp only.

we have to remember that these kinds of changes are like steering a ship. they take time to show up for the end user and spyderco clearly still has exclusives they have to get to, since they are still being released as well. also, spyderco is working on expanding their golden factory, so we might see it get even slower before it can actually really speed up.

i get frustrated just like everyone else, but i think we need to remember to be patient. it's easy to think of spyderco as a huge company because they have factories all around the world making knives and because they are so popular, but it's really a small company with a very large reach. it make sense that it's tough to keep up with demand. i'm just glad they keep pushing and innovating and i hope they stop messing around with these crazy price increases that feel like a departure from the demographic they always targeted in the past.

The small company with large reach thing is definitely true, I’ve worked for start-ups with more people than the number of employees listed on their wiki page. I can also see the dealer exclusives taking precedence as those are done deals. In addition spyderco has such a huge range of products in so many steels that I can see everything being a lot of logistics to manage as well. That and with the knife world being so competitive a few lemons can crash your reputation so QC needs to be on point.

I also know that after releasing mules, they have changed the HT for the steels in production as well so here is to hoping. When they are released I will be getting a manix 2 LW, and an Endura 4 in Magna cut.

[curlyhairedboy]

I reckon a lot is stacked up behind the Golden expansion. Hard to keep production capacity from gapping when you're actively upgrading.

[James Y]

Patience is a virtue.

Jim

[Gtscotty]

I hear ya, I've had my Native 5 Salt in MagnaCut on order since late December, it would at least be nice to get an idea of when that model is expected to hit the shelves. I certainly didn't think that the Hogue Deka and SMKW Case Marilla in MagnaCut, announced months after the N5, would be available first, but here we are.

I kind of want one of the new green, serrated LC200N N5s, but am a bit reticent about ordering, who knows when they will hit shelves.

[yablanowitz]

Hmmm...

Just spitballing here, but they made 2000 Mule Team knives. Nobody else did. Is it just remotely possible that they used up all the Magnacut they got on that little project and are waiting for another shipment? And since everyone wants on that bandwagon, the foundry is having some demand issues as well?

[z1r]

I hear ya, I've had my Native 5 Salt in MagnaCut on order since late December, it would at least be nice to get an idea of when that model is expected to hit the shelves. I certainly didn't think that the Hogue Deka and SMKW Case Marilla in MagnaCut, announced months after the N5, would be available first, but here we are.

I kind of want one of the new green, serrated LC200N N5s, but am a bit reticent about ordering, who knows when they will hit shelves.

Hmm, I wasn't aware they were available for pre-order yet. Definitely one of the few knives I intend to purchase this year (hopefully).

I do like the Green on the LC200n version though.

[electro-static]

Hmmm...

Just spitballing here, but they made 2000 Mule Team knives. Nobody else did. Is it just remotely possible that they used up all the Magnacut they got on that little project and are waiting for another shipment? And since everyone wants on that bandwagon, the foundry is having some demand issues as well?

The N5 has a different stock thickness though, don’t know if the MT steel could be used for them. MFG bottleneck for steel is another possibility. I also know that there have been some burnt edge and warping issues with magna-cut as well.

[James Y]

If Spyderco is still ironing out the kinks in Magnacut, among other things, then a delay in general production is a good thing.

Jim

[electro-static]

If Spyderco is still ironing out the kinks in Magnacut, among other things, then a delay in general production is a good thing.

Jim

Agreed, it is one of the things that sets them apart.

[Matus]

I don’t think that this is a MagnaCut issue per se, I think it is an inherent feature (not a bug) if Spyderco business model where there are not only many production lines and models, but also numerous sprints and exclusives. One might argue that Spyderco has announced some of their models too soon. I also find the wait for the N5 a bit on the long side. But it is what it is. Spyderco is trying (and imo succeeding) to engage their customer base - and sharing information early in the process is part of that. That inherently leads to longer wait times. So while the long wait is not something most of us have a special appreciation for, I think we should not give Spyderco too hard of a time for.

[fixall]

I've gotta wonder if MagnaCut's tendency to warp during heat treat is part of the holdup...

[wrdwrght]

I've gotta wonder if MagnaCut's tendency to warp during heat treat is part of the holdup...

Oh? What knifemaker has encountered this? Not denying, just curious.

[cabfrank]

I thought that was Maxamet.

[fixall]

I've gotta wonder if MagnaCut's tendency to warp during heat treat is part of the holdup...

Oh? What knifemaker has encountered this? Not denying, just curious.

Well, me for one (but I wouldn’t call myself a knifemaker).

Here is a MagnaCut chef knife I have been working on with Bob Kramer (yea... THE Bob Kramer, lol). It was hardened to 63.5 - 64hrc following the protocol outlined by Larrin and his father Devin Thomas.



Here is the warp in the tang.



Aside from myself... I'm not going to name the maker who has had some issues with MagnaCut warping, as he himself hasn't really made it public. He's has made a lot of knives out of MagnaCut at this point though. He has also said that other makers have had some fairly significant issues with the steel warping. I've also been told that Peter's Heat Treat has been having issues with MagnaCut warping and has been trying to find a solution.

I'm not dogging on the steel. I'm a HUGE fan of it. I have several knives made from it on hand and rock Larrin's t-shirts all the time. It's a GREAT stainless steel. It just seems that it's a bit like AEB-L in its tendency to warp.