Ongoing SE vs PE lil Matriarch observations

[bbturbodad]

First a quick history of how I went from having almost no interest in the Lil Matriarch to buying 3 during the last month. In anticipation for the upcoming Dodo and with a recent acquisition of a Sharpmaker I wanted to practice/try sharpening a reverse S blade so although I would have purchased an SE model they have been long discontinued and rarely pop up on the secondary market so I went with the PE BBS exclusive.

Right out of the box I was impressed with the precision and effortlessness the knife went through cardboard. Over the next few days I couldn't keep the knife out of my pocket it did everything I asked of it. I had at this point reprofiled the knife on the Sharpmaker to 15 dps. Even though I was thrilled at the way the PE blade was working I couldn't help but wonder how much I'd like it in SE. Because I didn't think I would find an SE model I decided to order a second BBS PE to have as a backup.

Two days after I ordered the backup I woke up to a saved ebay search that an SE lil Matriarch was available! Of course I couldn't resist and hit buy it now.

So now that we got the "quick" story of how I have the 3 knives out of the way... :D

I broke down a dozen cardboard boxes and cut a little styrofoam that I had for recycling today.

I started with the SE (factory sharpened and angle). To my surprise the cuts snagged and tended to go off track, which is the complete opposite (precise, smooth and effortless) of the reprofiled PE one I was cutting against back to back. I thought must be the reprofiled blade giving it such an advantage so I pulled out my backup, still with the factory edge, and added it to the comparison. Again to my surprise both the PE edges cut better through cardboard than the SE model.

BBS PE factory - SE factory - BBS PE 15°


When it came to the foam all three cut very cleanly with a very slight edge in reduced perceived effort going to the SE.


I will continue to test these against each other in different tasks and update with new info as I have it.

[The Meat man]

Very interesting turbo. I'll be looking forward to reading more on this!

[prndltech]

I still hate you so much

[Sharp Guy]

I have a BBS Lil' Matriarch and sadly it doesn't get as much attention from me as it should. I just wanted to say that's not how you break down cardboard :)

[SF Native]

I was on this same journey a while back. Only got the plain edge but it is cool. Thanks for posting the comparison.

[bbturbodad]

Reprofiled the SE to 15° on the Sharpmaker with the CBN rods. I followed with a few passes on the brown rods to smooth out the aggressive finish from the CBN rods and to weaken and remove the burr. Afterward a few passes on the corner of a basswood strop with 1um CBN spray to confirm the burr was completely removed.

At this point the knife cut paper much smoother and quieter than the PE sharpened to 15° per side. It was sharp enough to catch hairs and whittle if you caught them just right but I wouldn't call it hair whittling but still very sharp.


I cut a variety of cardboard from clean and dry, dirty and wet, thin, thick etc.

When cutting clean fresh cardboard the SE flew threw it with ease at first, however as I made more cuts the serrations began to fill with material on the more fibrous samples and degraded cutting performance significantly (more on this later). Interestingly the SE was the easy winner against the completely wet cardboard.

You can see in the photo below how the teeth of the SE lil Matriarch grab on to some of the more fibrous cardboard.


So my initial impressions with regard to the SE vs PE lil Matriarch when cutting cardboard, on cardboard where the SE shines it's amazingly slicey and a joy to use. However I find it often gets gunked up with the material it's cutting which causes the knife to tear, veer off track, and even stop cutting until cleared. The PE is consistent and although may require slightly more effort when compared to the SE under ideal conditions the PE all around cuts with better ease, more precision, and never snags.

I did a small amount of cutting up old towels into rags too. I'll do some more testing before I get into the results, but so far PE is looking pretty solid.

[prndltech]

Interesting... my tasman 2 just did some cardboard slaying for recycling tonight and it was like a zipper. Had BD1N manix on backup incase I needed it but the Tasman demolished it all no problem.

[sal]

Hi Turbodad,

If you have a Sharpmaker, sharpen the serrated version; 3 strokes on the side that has the serrations ground and one stroke on the other side. Repeat for 15 - 20 sets and try cutting cardboard again.,

sal

[prndltech]

I’m also one that puts a \/ into serrations. Sharpen them like Sal mentioned here. I go 3-5 passes on the ground side and 1 on the “flat”

[bbturbodad]

Hi Turbodad,

If you have a Sharpmaker, sharpen the serrated version; 3 strokes on the side that has the serrations ground and one stroke on the other side. Repeat for 15 - 20 sets and try cutting cardboard again.,

sal

Hi Sal-

Yes I do have a Sharpmaker, the SE knife was sharpened to 15° and was just barely able to whittle hairs, however it binds up with material after multiple cuts with some cardboard (not all) which effects the cutting efficiency of the knife vs the PE which seems to just keep on going.

[sal]

Thanx for the input. I use 15 degrees as well for my serrated models. However, if we make a version in H1, which is being requested, the Plain edge on cardboard might not have the edge retention our customers like.

How many times did you sharpen the knife?

sal

[bbturbodad]

Thanx for the input. I use 15 degrees as well for my serrated models. However, if we make a version in H1, which is being requested, the Plain edge on cardboard might not have the edge retention our customers like.

How many times did you sharpen the knife?

sal

The SE was only sharpened once before I made the above cuts. I cut a few boxes with the factory edge yesterday for reference.

I don't have any experience with H1 in PE but I've been happy with the edge retention of VG10 in this model. Now if you wanted to do a PE sprint in K390 (suggesting this because I know Japan will be doing K390 runs), 4V etc I certainly wouldn't mind an upgrade on the PE model

[steelcity16]

Thanx for the input. I use 15 degrees as well for my serrated models. However, if we make a version in H1, which is being requested, the Plain edge on cardboard might not have the edge retention our customers like.

How many times did you sharpen the knife?

sal

I'm definitely thinking H1 SE salt sprint in Orange to match the last Spyderhawk sprint?? I wouldn't do H1 PE as there are still PE M390 LMs available at BBS and for the reason you stated on the H1 PE wear resistance. Maybe Toxic Green LC200N PE Salt down the road when the rumored Toxic Green LC200N models start coming out??

[sal]

Hey Turbo,

Resharpen and test again? I find that serrations respond very well to the sharpmaker in reducing snags.

sal

[bbturbodad]

Will do Sal. They both need a touch up...that's more cardboard than it looks like :D

The BBS lil Matriarch is VG10. I think even though I'm enjoying the PE an H1 SE lil Matriarch would be an instant classic....and yes I wouldn't bother with an H1 PE.

[sal]

Let us know the results.

sal

[vivi]

Hey Turbo,

Resharpen and test again? I find that serrations respond very well to the sharpmaker in reducing snags.

sal

I agree with Sal. Serrated knives shouldn't snag on cardboard.

https://streamable.com/px333

[Evil D]

Hey Turbo,

Resharpen and test again? I find that serrations respond very well to the sharpmaker in reducing snags.

sal

This x10000000000000

Here's a visual representation of no snagging vs snagging.

[bbturbodad]

Just for reference I made a quick vid showing the sharpness on the SE as it stands after yesterdays cut test and before I resharpen it.

https://imgur.com/bI8NpZe

It obviously takes more effort to cut now vs. when freshly sharpened, however you can see it still cuts relatively cleanly and snag free. I also want to point out that only some cardboard caused the SE to snag, and as I noted yesterday, although apparently not clearly , the SE is the slicier of the two, it was just more prone to snagging for me yesterday.

I should have them sharpened up and ready to go tonight.

[vivi]

Just for reference I made a quick vid showing the sharpness on the SE as it stands after yesterdays cut test and before I resharpen it.

https://imgur.com/bI8NpZe

It obviously takes more effort to cut now vs. when freshly sharpened, however you can see it still cuts relatively cleanly and snag free. I also want to point out that only some cardboard caused the SE to snag, and as I noted yesterday, although apparently not clearly , the SE is the slicier of the two, it was just more prone to snagging for me yesterday.

I should have them sharpened up and ready to go tonight.

How many other people today do you think got on the internet to compare their cardboard cutting techniques?

:p

Looks like you sharpened it well.