Cruwear military

[Philo Beddoe]

They are close in percentage of carbide forming alloys so that really remains to be seen I guess, I think a lot will depend on final RC hardness.

Doesn't Spyderco run the S30V at about 60? Are you saying it would need to be higher than 60 just to be equal to S30V?

[Ankerson]

Doesn't Spyderco run the S30V at about 60? Are you saying it would need to be higher than 60 just to be equal to S30V?

It remains to be seen what it will do really. :)

I don't have any experience with the steel, just going by carbide content for now, will have to wait until I can test it once the Military comes out.

[chuck_roxas45]

Whats 3v?

Google is your friend. :)

[The Mastiff]

Maybe I'm misinformed but whats the point of a millie in Cruwear? I've read that's it not any better that S30V but have no clue if that's true?

Better than S30V? It completely depends on the individual and his/her needs and likes as to which steel they find "better". I don't know of any ranking of "better" or "worse" steels. Different attributes appeal to different people. Some people think wear resistance is the final judge of which steel is better. The three main attributes typically valued are wear resistance, toughness, and corrosion resistance. There are other attributes like grain structure, high sharpness, and even different types of measuring wear resistance or corrosion resistance, even toughness. The more you know the more complicated it can get which is why most people decide what they really like only after some trial and error in selecting their carry knives.

Whats 3v?

It's a crucible powder steel known for toughness and good wear resistance. Call it a cousin of Cruwear. More direct relationships of Cruwear in modern powder form can be found in PD-1, Zwear, etc. They are to Cruwear what CPM 154 is to 154cm.

The easiest way to look at Cruwear and where it stands usage wise is looking at what it is originally designed for. It's an upgrade to D2 in wear resistance, toughness, higher attainable hardness at the cost of lower corrosion resistance. ( Steels are trade offs of the main attributes. Typically to go up in one, you need to give up some of another attribute the same way tanks are balances of armor, mobility and firepower, fighters are balances of.....well, you get the picture. :) )


Joe

[chuck_roxas45]

Hey Joe, can you tell me about cruwear and low angle bevels? You have already posted about cruwear doing well with a low grit finish but how about a polished edge?

[The Mastiff]

Chuck, I haven't taken it to what some here would call polished. I tried it up to 8K ( DMT), and the usual diamond, then chrome oxide strops just to see what I liked it best at. That is not very polished compared to some here.

It does fine and has good bite or what I consider good bite. Not quite CPM M4, but not that far off either. I notice more the difference between Ingot and powder steels than I do between say, two different powder steels like CPM 154 and S30V. The Cruwear feels more to me like the Dozier D2 than the 3V it's closer to.

I'm not explaining this well, and it's very subjective anyway. I've been playing around with Z-wear ( composition of Cruwear but a powder steel) and I notice a fairly big difference here. More of a difference than the one between CPM 154 and S30V.

I do get more of a bite at the same grit from Cruwear than I do from D2 ( both not tested but supposed to be running around rc 62). Cruwear seems to do the higher sharpness people like better than S30V, but not even in the same class as Super Blue, W2, 52100, even 12C and 13C sandvik stainless.

That's about all I've got other than it can be a tough , stubborn bI#@h of a steel at times. I recommend diamonds personally, lubricated to keep the stuff from clogging up the stones. It isn't a clean powder, or Hitachi cutlery steel like Sal has been spoiling us with. With 1% silicone in it, plus whatever else is in that batch ( from recycled steel) I'd recommend a respirator if using power equipment, plus it can work harden or warp from grinding as it's so wear resistant it can get hot.

I never took it down below about 30 degrees inclusive so I haven't found it's limits there. I have taken steels down lower just for the heck of it but I've found I don't really need to for my uses. IMO, this class of steels isn't really the best for the darksiders amongst us who take knives down to 7-10 degrees inclusive for grins ( Gunmike, are you listening?) This would be a steel more suited for Jack ( Yab) to scrape stuff off tiles without damaging the edge much.

That's about all I have now. Sorry. :)

Joe

[chuck_roxas45]

The part about scraping stuff without edge damage is the part I waas hoping for. :D

I remember you posting about writing your initials on a piece of girder. I would never do that but you do play around with some very interesting steels.

Thanks very much for the feedback Joe, I have never been disappointed with the steels you like because they have such wide variety of characteristics that we can play around with.

[Donut]

I would say the M390 would be difficult to get in a trade for cruwear just because the Carbon Fiber raises the price.

[Philo Beddoe]

Better than S30V? It completely depends on the individual and his/her needs and likes as to which steel they find "better". I don't know of any ranking of "better" or "worse" steels. Different attributes appeal to different people. Some people think wear resistance is the final judge of which steel is better. The three main attributes typically valued are wear resistance, toughness, and corrosion resistance. There are other attributes like grain structure, high sharpness, and even different types of measuring wear resistance or corrosion resistance, even toughness. The more you know the more complicated it can get which is why most people decide what they really like only after some trial and error in selecting their carry knives.



It's a crucible powder steel known for toughness and good wear resistance. Call it a cousin of Cruwear. More direct relationships of Cruwear in modern powder form can be found in PD-1, Zwear, etc. They are to Cruwear what CPM 154 is to 154cm.

The easiest way to look at Cruwear and where it stands usage wise is looking at what it is originally designed for. It's an upgrade to D2 in wear resistance, toughness, higher attainable hardness at the cost of lower corrosion resistance. ( Steels are trade offs of the main attributes. Typically to go up in one, you need to give up some of another attribute the same way tanks are balances of armor, mobility and firepower, fighters are balances of.....well, you get the picture. :) )


Joe

Yeah I understand the "better" part, I was just trying to kick start a little conversation about Cruwear :) because theirs little info about it. If Spyderco is doing a Sprint run using Cruwear they must like it, they don't use junk steels in their Sprint runs. How much rust resistance does Cruwear have?

I do believe the posted statement that a lot will depend on the final RC hardness.

I've read a few a different places that this is going to be a 1200 piece Sprint run so unless someone knows different I will assume that number is correct. Thanks.

[GoodEyeSniper]

I would say the M390 would be difficult to get in a trade for cruwear just because the Carbon Fiber raises the price.

plus the m390 steel seems much more sought after. I doubt you could do a straight trade, unless the guy just really wanted the cruwear.

[DJ]

Thanks folks .........very interesting read.

[The Mastiff]

The part about scraping stuff without edge damage is the part I waas hoping for.

I remember you posting about writing your initials on a piece of girder. I would never do that but you do play around with some very interesting steels.

Thanks very much for the feedback Joe, I have never been disappointed with the steels you like because they have such wide variety of characteristics that we can play around with

If you have one at 35 degrees, try scraping your initials in a steel I beam and it folds over or chips, don't get mad at Spyderco. They aren't the ones making this claim. I am, but I doubt you will find me trying it with any new Cruwear millies I am fortunate enough to be able to purchase. Different knife, different geometry, different steel ( Vascowear as opposed to Cruwear, fixed blade not folder, etc., different hardness, etc.) Hopefully something I talk about having done 30 some years ago ( early 80's, somewhere in the sandhills of Nebraska on a bridge being built for the B&N RR) won't be the thing people remember about this sprint run in 2013 instead of the extra effort and work Spyderco put into this knife targeted at some of it's customers who are willing to buy a tool steel folder. I do feel pretty confident people will like the performance of this sprint provided it's used as a millie should be, not used as it shouldn't. I always talk about the right tool for the job and the one real notable incident I remember not doing that should haunt me, not Sal and Spyderco. :)

But, yeah Chuck. I think you are going to like it. Whether you like it better than any other steel remains to be seen. Spyderco fans are pretty used to high performance already. We can buy production models in CPM M4 and S90V, not to mention S30V, VG10, ZDP, O-1, etc. Yeah. We're spoiled. :)

Joe

[chuck_roxas45]

If you have one at 35 degrees, try scraping your initials in a steel I beam and it folds over or chips, don't get mad at Spyderco. They aren't the ones making this claim. I am, but I doubt you will find me trying it with any new Cruwear millies I am fortunate enough to be able to purchase. Different knife, different geometry, different steel ( Vascowear as opposed to Cruwear, fixed blade not folder, etc., different hardness, etc.) Hopefully something I talk about having done 30 some years ago ( early 80's, somewhere in the sandhills of Nebraska on a bridge being built for the B&N RR) won't be the thing people remember about this sprint run in 2013 instead of the extra effort and work Spyderco put into this knife targeted at some of it's customers who are willing to buy a tool steel folder. I do feel pretty confident people will like the performance of this sprint provided it's used as a millie should be, not used as it shouldn't. I always talk about the right tool for the job and the one real notable incident I remember not doing that should haunt me, not Sal and Spyderco. :)

But, yeah Chuck. I think you are going to like it. Whether you like it better than any other steel remains to be seen. Spyderco fans are pretty used to high performance already. We can buy production models in CPM M4 and S90V, not to mention S30V, VG10, ZDP, O-1, etc. Yeah. We're spoiled. :)

Joe

LOL, I don't plan on scratching my initials on a piece of steel. I don't baby my knives these days but then I don't have a lot of non cutting tasks too. I just remembered that because I find that when you like a certain characteristic of a steel, I too become interested and realize that exploring, playing, and getting to know the steels is very interesting to me. I like some steels for the wear resistance, I like other steels for the kind of edge they take, I like the tough steels, and I like the ones with good all around performance. I appreciate your contributions(as I do many others') to the forums because your experience guides me into paths that are a pleasure for me to explore and otherwise would take a lot of money and time(both of which I sorely lack) for me to find out by myself throughtrial and error.

Thanks again Joe(and to the other guys who contribute knowledge to the forums) without expecting anything in return from us who learn from them.

[bdblue]

Your best bet is to sign up to be notified when your favorite online dealer gets stock in so you can purchase one at that time.

I've read that some of the retailers will be sold out by the time they notify people by email.

[twinboysdad]

I've read that some of the retailers will be sold out by the time they notify people by email.

Where did you read that? Just curious because most aren't taking pre-orders yet. I need to know because my b&m will get 2 but they will be marked up so if I need to "grab my ankles" to ensure a Cruwear, do tell...

[senorsquare]

I do not own a Military yet, but this one looks like a good place to start.

[DJ]

I do not own a Military yet, but this one looks like a good place to start.

I have to post to this one .........the military is my favorite knife.

[senorsquare]

I have to post to this one .........the military is my favorite knife.

I finally got my first Military last week and man I really love this knife. I have always resisted getting one because I've always liked smaller knives and didn't feel the need for a 4" folder. After carrying this one for the past week now I "get it". I find it hard to believe that there is a more comfortable and competent folder out there.

I may be gushing a bit because it's still fairly new, but wow, this is a great knife! The Millie has quickly earned a permanent place in my collection and getting the Cruwear version has now become imperative.

[chuck_roxas45]

I finally got my first Military last week and man I really love this knife. I have always resisted getting one because I've always liked smaller knives and didn't feel the need for a 4" folder. After carrying this one for the past week now I "get it". I find it hard to believe that there is a more comfortable and competent folder out there.

I may be gushing a bit because it's still fairly new, but wow, this is a great knife! The Millie has quickly earned a permanent place in my collection and getting the Cruwear version has now become imperative.

Welcome to the club. :D

[Capt'n Boatsalot]

Are there any other Military Sprints that are known to be coming out in 2013 or 2014, aside from the Cruwear version?

I ask because I am really interested in adding a Military to my Spydercos. But I am ready to try something aside from S30V (already have PM2, Manix2, and Sage 2 in that particular steel). Nothing wrong with S30V at all, but just ready to try something different. While the Cruwear sounds really interesting thanks to the previous posts in the thread, I am wondering if any news has leaked about other Military Sprints later on (a la the reported M390 PM2 in 2014).

Thanks!