Proposed new Spyderco "Oz" folder

[ozspyder]

Let's open up a new thread here to discuss the possibility of Sal's generous offer of maybe having an Australian specific folder to aid in folding knife users' ability to import and buy knives that won't be seized by our flick knife/ gravity/ centrifugal opening laws.

A lot to discuss, and designs have been called for. So, let's keep it open, informative and civil. Sal's generosity is once again most awesome and we shouldn't abuse it.

The original thread with preceding discussion can be found here:
http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47392

IMHO this will take some time but let's start with:
1) Design/ Mechanics
2) Logistics
3) Naming :) (Sal has already suggested "Oz" )

The laws here in Australia are bound to change or the wording of the importation of such goods as knives will be more descriptive. But... who knows... lawmakers in their ivory towers have a habit of moving the goalposts on their citizenry at the drop of a hat :rolleyes:

3, 2, 1... go :D

[Carlos]

Due to the flicking issue -- and pretty much any folder can be flicked open -- perhaps what is needed is a knife that locks when both opened and closed. Try placing the lock somewhere so that disengaging it makes it impossible to flick.

Add to that a DK penknife blade Hole (since customs is using the Hole to flick with), and a strong backspring. If they eventually ban knives that lock open, you can just have it lock closed only.

[Carlos]

Another idea is that since Stanley knives get a pass in the text of the rules, makes a Spyderco-grade Stanley-inspired knife with VG-10 or S30V, G10 scales, you name it.

[O,just,O]

Carlos, thanks for your input. In a letter to me from Australian customs, they stated, Initiate opening with one hand and then flick the blade out.
Initiate to what degree ?
I just initiated opening to half way on a case russlock & no way can I flick it from there. Light thin short bade on a heavy back spring. This may be the way. Forget one handed that is allready in their wording. The HOLE may have to be placed so close to the pivot & off in geometry that even Chuck Norris could not open it one handed. But being Chuck.
O.

[araneae]

As Paul mentioned in the other thread, a knife with a backspring like a traditional slip joint with a locking liner seems like a good idea. An old Schrade model is shown below. A stiff spring would make it unflickable.

[jldc]

Would it be possible to ship the knife with a stiffer spring mechanism and have a less stiff spring either available as an option or even ship with the knife?

Just wondering.

L

[dbcad]

Could anyone flick open an Urban without using the stock large hole? In OZ I think it's still a game of governmental interpretation. In many ways, not all, it still resembles the effort going on in Denmark, even NYC in the US.

Personally I would not want to go back to a nail nick.

IMO it will take a stable interpretation of what the authorities will decide before a solution can be reached.

[Sithus1966]

What about something similar to the Benchmade Benchmite which has the lock built into the handle keeping it open and closed that you had to activate to open the blade. It would have to be awkward enough that you couldn't push a button, lever or what ever and snap the blade open one handed. If they are going to try with everything they have to make it an illegal knife then you have to do the same to make it legal. The Black Rock Hunter by Cold Steel avoided the butterfly knife issue with heavy springs.

[Joe Internet]

I have an idea based on the C41BK Native FRN model...

Modify the handle so that the forward finger cutout is filled in. Fill it enough so that only the very top edge of the spydie hole is exposed, essentially making it a nail nick. This should leave to little of the blade to grasp for a spydie drop, and will effectively prevent one handed opening with the spydie hole.

The blade is already almost impossible to force flick due to its' light weight, but a stiffer spring can be added to add some more back pressure.

This could be done with linerless FRN or G10, and if the user wanted to "void the warranty", a file and some sandpaper would allow access to the spydie hole again.

It could be named the Aboriginal. :)

[TexSierra]

What if you made a pocket knife where the back scale completely covered the hole (back of blade flush with scale) on one side, with a cutout on the other so that your thumb can come in contact with the Spyder-hole?

This way, you wont be able to grab the blade to Spydie-drop it, but it will still open as easy as pie when you put your thumb in the hole.

Please excuse the disgustingly horrible picture, but I hope you get the idea.

[tonydahose]

i like the idea of hiding the hole with the handle. have it all set to carve out that area with a specified width drum sander once it gets passed customs? or make 2 sets of scales and then you could switch them to make opening easier? i guess that would be circumventing the law which i doubt Sal would do but this is the only thing i could think of. i am sure :spyder: will come up with something for you guys and gals down under. stay safe down there too.

[peacefuljeffrey]

I hope this isn't considered "uncivil," but I feel dismay at reading of all the ideas for a plan to comply with regulations that are at their core ridiculous and a dearth of ideas for addressing changing the law back from nonsensical to sensible.

If all we ever do is keep running around from design to design as the thumb of misguided government keeps trying to press us down, we will eventually be left able to own nothing of any utility. It's bad enough how many people are stuck being unable to carry, or sometimes even own, a knife that locks open for their own safety.

I feel that for every anything (minute/dollar/brain cell) spent on coming up with an importable Spyderco knife that satisfies draconian laws, at least three more should go to organizing a legislative repeal-or-redress effort.

I hope you will consider this comment to be germane to this discussion even if it doesn't contribute an idea for a knife design. It's still part of a discussion that needs to happen --or do the people who live in the restrictive countries plan to let that situation exist forever?

[O,just,O]

Yep you are right in what you say Jeff. To change a law was only an idea with enough behind it, so get a new idea & get behind that ? No, to recant is to lose face :confused: so don't recant & lose face another way .
This knife law thing is a bigger agenda than a few outposts like us & as soon as the bugs are worked out it will roll out big time. Maybee in a place near you all. 325 views 12 posts, get behind this for your own good for today it's us & tomorrow it may be you.
O.

[Urban Conquest]

The problem lay in the fact that knife collectors and the knife industry in Australia has no national or even state voice. The AKC has closed it's doors on membership ,I beleive after being asked for a list of its members. Anyone trying to get talk to law makers as an individual gets palmed off onto aids and secretaries and finds themselves back at the door where they came in. I spoke to my state weapons branch knife "expert" who told me that my button lock chinese style folder (Hanwei Quandong) which doesn't even have a nail nick and requires 2 hands to open was in fact a flick knife because it had a button on it,ignorance is worse when the ignorant will not learn, so even the state police and customs can't agree. The ship is drifting and there seems to be no-one at the helm to speak to.
Having said that I had a delivery of Persians and Lums today that passed thru Customs un-scathed

[jezabel]

Short of designing a new model specifically for Oz (which is great that Sal's entertaining the idea!), one "quick fix" that would make a Spyderco less easy to open is to create a flush "Spyderplug" which would fit into the recess of the Spyderhole, it could have the smallest nail nick moulded into it just to "sell" it as an ergonomic opening aid. Of course the plug would to appear to be to permanent to the untrained eye.

J.... I'm running off to the patent office now :p

[Antonio_Luiz]

Much as I appreciate Sal's willingness and generosity in seeking solutions, the only long term answer is to do what New Hampshire did. Yeah - I know it's gonna be a lot harder and take a lot longer, but even 12 months ago who would have thought that law abiding NH citizens would have their win.

[jzmtl]

What about a lock back with blade tang similar to Okapi knife (or the CS knock off, kudu), there's no way you can flick one open if the notches are relatively deep, and still easy to open with thumb.

[JayTeeEmEm]

[quote="Urban Conquest"]The problem lay in the fact that knife collectors and the knife industry in Australia has no national or even state voice. The AKC has closed it's doors on membership ,I beleive after being asked for a list of its members. Anyone trying to get talk to law makers as an individual gets palmed off onto aids and secretaries and finds themselves back at the door where they came in.

How hard would it be to start another club? Australian Spyderco Collectors Club has a nice ring to it. It wouldn't really bother me if I was on a membership list handed to customs/police. It could even be sponsored by Urban Conquest/Spyderco/Zen :D
I'm sure there'd be at least 10 members on this forum ready to join ASAP.

[Urban Conquest]

How hard would it be to start another club? Australian Spyderco Collectors Club has a nice ring to it. It wouldn't really bother me if I was on a membership list handed to customs/police. It could even be sponsored by Urban Conquest/Spyderco/Zen :D
I'm sure there'd be at least 10 members on this forum ready to join ASAP.

Not hard at all if you have the time, I'm afraid Urban Conquest has a hard enough time sponsoring me let alone a club. Finding people with the time and knowledge to take roles in a club is the hard part.

[JNewell]

A decision by Spyderco to "boycott" markets/jurisdictions with restrictive laws by choosing not to produce compliant products would have less than no effect whatsoever on the laws and would only help to ensure that people living in those places have absolutely no compliant products to use while they work to try to change the restrictive laws. I view Spyderco's decisions on this as being near-heroic, since I doubt they make much money on these special purpose/special markets products. :spyder:

I hope this isn't considered "uncivil," but I feel dismay at reading of all the ideas for a plan to comply with regulations that are at their core ridiculous and a dearth of ideas for addressing changing the law back from nonsensical to sensible.

If all we ever do is keep running around from design to design as the thumb of misguided government keeps trying to press us down, we will eventually be left able to own nothing of any utility. It's bad enough how many people are stuck being unable to carry, or sometimes even own, a knife that locks open for their own safety.

I feel that for every anything (minute/dollar/brain cell) spent on coming up with an importable Spyderco knife that satisfies draconian laws, at least three more should go to organizing a legislative repeal-or-redress effort.

I hope you will consider this comment to be germane to this discussion even if it doesn't contribute an idea for a knife design. It's still part of a discussion that needs to happen --or do the people who live in the restrictive countries plan to let that situation exist forever?