The final H1 shootout

[Blerv]

The problem is trying to find and justify strengths of conventional steels. People freak because "rust proof" should have HUGE flaws like making a plastic knife. While premium carbon steels have perks H1 isn't exactly 420ss =p. This is because most people grow up with figurative speech like idioms teaching us facts: "The bigger they are the harder they fall." Well that's not always the case.

The biggest "flaw" for H1 is cost and manufacturing. It's a niche product so Spyderco seems somewhat at the mercy of what is available. That was the problem with 4mm finished thicknesses of blade stock for the Warrior, it almost didn't happen. As mentioned by another they also can't seem to manufacturer it in FFG format. Also in plain edge Sal says it's about on par with AUS8 (which for the record is a great working steel still) while in SE format it's quite a different animal.

As for "work hardening" just do some research. It's a very secretive steel so don't expect to find a box full of secrets laying around. That also doesn't make it not true.

Sharpening increasing hardness, yes to a degree. Grinding and commercial sharpening/serrations, of course. Believe what you want but Sal and Ed say it's true. I trust them over Internet opinions from experimenting consumers and knife shop salespeople. You don't need a degree in metallurgy to sell knives, trust me...90% of them are damned fools who flick knives all day and drool.

[Blerv]

i live less than 100 meters from the ocean and I never have any knives naturally rust on me including carbon steel. Unless I purposely leaving lemon juice over the blade, that both ZDP and D2 rust pitted over night. Therefore H1 doesn't seem to do anything for me unless one day I decide to go for a dive or something

on the other hand, H1 doesn't hold an edge at all for my daily card board cutting task. And, most importantly, work hardening doesn't exist, ever, for both my Tasman and Pacific Salt.

Serrated H1 hits around 68rc in the scallops. Per Sal it holds an edge on the CATRA longer than ANY other steel in serrated format. The Jumpmaster being the edge king.

[yablanowitz]

I must be harder on my knives than CATRA testing. Even serrated H-1 has failed to impress me. I must admit it chips less than VG-10, though.

[Blerv]

I must be harder on my knives than CATRA testing. Even serrated H-1 has failed to impress me. I must admit it chips less than VG-10, though.

My understanding is that CATRA just is a measurement of cutting strips of paper with varying degrees of abrasion material. Good for edge retention, not harder use or varied materials.

If your dulling Serrated H1 constantly based on what I hear there isn't really anything better for holding an edge. Well hacksaw and box cutter blades will but those are easier to replace :) . I honestly say occasionally i reach for a box knife at work...I don't always want to beat on my Ladybug.

[yablanowitz]

Generally, I sharpen box cutter blades before I can stand to use them, and they don't hold an edge worth the effort for the most part. As for hacksaw blades, they have their uses, but overall, they're pretty limited.

[Evil D]

The H1 vs. shoe thing...i'd like to see how sharp that knife is after the shoe, and then take a VG10 blade or other steel, and cut a shoe the same way and compare it.

Since a shoe isn't likely to rust the knife, that comes down to sharpness and edge retention. I can sharpen a butter knife that'll slice a shoe in half but that doesn't mean it'll have much edge afterwards.

[The Deacon]

One of the problems, for H-1 and a lot of other things, is that the internet, and internet forums in particular, represent the world largest ongoing game of "telephone". Somebody writes something. Someone else reads it and repeats it, either misquoted, embellished, or both. The valid statement that H-1 is a work hardened steel and that the edge holding improves with sharpening gets twisted into the absurd statement that it gets sharper with use.

[Reeper22]

One of the problems, for H-1 and a lot of other things, is that the internet, and internet forums in particular, represent the world largest ongoing game of "telephone". Somebody writes something. Someone else reads it and repeats it, either misquoted, embellished, or both. The valid statement that H-1 is a work hardened steel and that the edge holding improves with sharpening gets twisted into the absurd statement that it gets sharper with use.

I agree. There are a lot of misconceptions about H1. My experience with it is that it's rust proof, tough, and holds a pretty decent edge. I like H1 a lot. I wouldn't stock up on H1 knives but I like the few that I have.

[Evil D]

I think the problem is that most of us are just spoiled by the other high end steels. If you don't have a real need for the rust proof nature of H1, there's just simply no reason to pick H1 over another steel when you factor in the superior edge retention you get with S30V/S90V/ZDP etc. That said, i still want a H1 knife just to see for myself.

[Hookpunch]

I agree. There are a lot of misconceptions about H1. My experience with it is that it's rust proof, tough, and holds a pretty decent edge. I like H1 a lot. I wouldn't stock up on H1 knives but I like the few that I have.

I agree, the detractors make it sound as if it is as sharp as a butter knife after opening a couple envelopes.

[The Deacon]

Everyone has priorities and preferences. Some for practical reasons, some for esthetic reasons, Some for a mixture of both. No steel can be all things to all users. Virtually every steel Spyderco has ever used is still someone's favorite and someone else's idea of the worst steel Spyderco has ever used. AUS-6 holds an edge long enough to satisfy me, but would be grossly inadequate for Yablanowitz's use. ZDP-189 is rust resistant enough for me, but may be a less than ideal choice for someone living on the coast or in the tropics. I'd gladly sacrifice extreme edge holding for the eye candy of an attractive damascus pattern, others would not.

[unit]

Everyone has priorities and preferences. Some for practical reasons, some for esthetic reasons, Some for a mixture of both. No steel can be all things to all users. Virtually every steel Spyderco has ever used is still someone's favorite and someone else's idea of the worst steel Spyderco has ever used. AUS-6 holds an edge long enough to satisfy me, but would be grossly inadequate for Yablanowitz's use. ZDP-189 is rust resistant enough for me, but may be a less than ideal choice for someone living on the coast or in the tropics. I'd gladly sacrifice extreme edge holding for the eye candy of an attractive damascus pattern, others would not.

There is some real wisdom in those words. Read them closely!

I find my collection contains M4 and ZDP-189...AND H1. I am glad to have these options at my disposal. Forgive me if I (to) emphatically suggested a steel to anyone else. I just figured that what I like will surely find favor with others?

[Hookpunch]

There is some real wisdom in those words. Read them closely!

I find my collection contains M4 and ZDP-189...AND H1. I am glad to have these options at my disposal. Forgive me if I (to) emphatically suggested a steel to anyone else. I just figured that what I like will surely find favor with others?

LOL....yeah no point getting heated over this, I mean I only really need one pocket knife and one fixed blade by my collection runs to 10, nice to have options on the steel.

For the money I like having H1 around water, that way I don't get if my Vg-10 or s30v end up with rust.

[unit]

I made this video half a year ago for this sort of discussion (why H1 if you are not around water?). For the record other stainless steels will not last a week even with diligent cleaning and lube. Not for everyone, and I am not like everyone but H1 is great for a few of my needs and I thank Spyderco for helping me out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUFMeFZE ... ata_player

[Jazz]

The H1 vs. shoe thing...i'd like to see how sharp that knife is after the shoe, and then take a VG10 blade or other steel, and cut a shoe the same way and compare it.

I would too, but I don't have one I'm willing to wreck. Please check out that whole thread - I beat the crap out of that knife with batoning a couple of times and it still sliced paper great. It's obviously harder than when I got it and before the mods done to it. Not saying it's a super steel, but holds and edge quite fine - what more do you need? I say buy VG 10 if you're that sceptical.

- best wishes, Jazz.

[Blerv]

The Internet is also a very unrealistic game of want vs need. Spend any time talking cars on it and suddenly 400 horsepower is "a joke". Most the people saying that not only drive 130 hp economy cars but have never even driven something with that much power.

I don't mean to get heated and will buy any model I like regardless of the steel. However, if Sal and co make a bold statement about say, edge retention or work hardening people take it as an opinion.

If they say, "in our opinion" it is exactly that. If they don't you are basically calling them ignorant and spreading your own myths which are hard to rid.

I personally am not a huge s30v fan. I much prefer the upper end steels like zdp-189. Those will still not hold an edge compared to serrated H1. If you don't believe me start cutting shoes :) .

[Freediver]

My Pacific Salt is my favorite knife. Ever. I literally carry it anywhere. It stays in my pocket on land, the beach and underwater. It may not hold an edge as well as others, or look as nice, but it gets the job done and is maintenance-free for me.

[Hookpunch]

The Internet is also a very unrealistic game of want vs need. Spend any time talking cars on it and suddenly 400 horsepower is "a joke". Most the people saying that not only drive 130 hp economy cars but have never even driven something with that much power.

LOL....yeah good point, all of a sudden everyone with an internet account is demanding an Bugatti Veyron at a minimum, but their preference is a Formula 1 McLaren even though if they could drive it they would pass out from the Gs at their first corner.

[Jay_Ev]

Perhaps I was one of the people who mis-spoke when I made the absurd statement regarding H1 getting sharper with use, I didn't think before I typed. :o For that I apologize. It wasn't my intent to mislead anybody. But I stand by my other comment, that I have read here and elsewhere that "work hardening" is a myth and a bunch of nonsense. I don't agree or disagree with that, but I have read it. I have better things to do with my time than make up stories and play "telephone" on internet forums.

[hunterseeker5]

I just want to address one thing quickly here. There seems to be this concept that if you live in a dry landlocked area the rust resistance of H1 is superfluous. While it very well may be to some people, other people use their knives as multipurpose tools. Just as an example I would be willing to bet that even sitting in death valley, or the sahara desert, if you say stopped for a picnic and spread some mustard with your carbon steel knife you might be a little displeased by the results. You could also happen to live in a cold climate where it snows in the winter. I do, usually, and they happen to put a LOT of salt on the road. If you haven't lived far north like this you may not realize that this salt gets EVERYWHERE. Even in the summer you can see salt stains which have crept up the sides of buildings. Yes if you use your knife all the time it can find its way there. Does everyone do this? No, but it shows you needn't live near the ocean and go diving for H1 to be useful.

As far as work hardening goes. Ed Schemp posted about the chemistry of the change. I only wish I could find it. In my own "testing" I noticed the steel's edge retention increase after I re-profiled the edge. At first I thought I was crazy. Then I stumbled across a few forum posts on the subject.