Straight Razor from Spyderco

[Doc Dan]

3] Shaving is a comforting thing. It is normal to be nervous when shaving with a straight razor the first time. Don’t worry. If the proper measures are taken one will not cut one’s face off. Quite the contrary, one will get a glorious shave and will feel euphoric afterwards.

The common straight razor is a friction folder, so there is nothing holding blade or handle into position but one’s hand. Hold your razor in whatever way is easiest for you. There is no right or wrong way. However, there are some methods that have proven themselves over centuries of time and keep good control of the handle to keep it from flopping around.
These pictures are from the document, Traditional SR Shaving Instructions for Beginners available as a free download on the internet.

Three fingers on the tang/shank, one on the tang hook, with the handle pointed upwards between the ring and little fingers. The thumb is under the tang/shank pinching it.


Two fingers on the tang/shank and one on the tang hook. The thumb is under the shank/tang in a pinch hold. The handle points up between the middle and ring fingers.


One finger on the tang, the handle pointing up between the pointer and middle finger. The middle finger rests on the tang hook. The thumb is in a pinch hold.

For some types of strokes one may want the handle pointing downwards, but the idea is the same, to maintain control of the blade and the handle. Hold the razor in whichever manner is the most comfortable, but don’t be afraid to experiment. Change up as you need to do so.


For some strokes, such as against the grain going South to North, holding the razor like a Kamisori is liked by some. The fingers and thumb pinch hold on the sides of the tang.
Whatever the method, always hold the tang, also called the shank, and not the handle, or the razor blade will flop and cut the skin.

Some people recommend using both hands, right and left, when shaving. Other people use only their dominant hand to shave. Either is fine and neither is necessarily superior to the other. Using two hands makes some types of strokes easier, but using only the dominant hand makes others easier. It is one’s own choice.

Always start the shave in the same place to develop muscle memory. Most commonly, this will be on one side of the face under the sideburn or even with the top of the ear, depending on hair style. Lay the blade FLAT on one’s face and then raise the spine 1 to 1 ½ spine widths off of the skin. This will be about 15° to 20°. This is different from the 30° required for a safety razor. A straight razor cuts best and smoother from these angles.

Make a short stroke about a half inch/1.27cm long, and then another at the end of that stroke. Do not put pressure, only using the weight of the razor. The blade, if properly honed, will cut easily and it alone should be enough. Don’t hold it so lightly that the razor comes off of the face or skips. It should remain in contact with the skin throughout the shave stroke. However, light pressure and smooth strokes will result in a close, smooth shave.

[vandelay]

I noticed what looked like some edge damage on my razor, so I decided to try actually sharpening it. Turned out the xx-fine DMT plate I had was actually too fine to take care of it, so I guess I'll have to buy an x-fine plate. My stropping compound also doesn't seem to be particularly effective so I may need to upgrade to diamond.

I haven't noticed any burr issues but the Science of Sharp denim strop method seems easy enough that I might as well give it a shot.

[Doc Dan]

I noticed what looked like some edge damage on my razor, so I decided to try actually sharpening it. Turned out the xx-fine DMT plate I had was actually too fine to take care of it, so I guess I'll have to buy an x-fine plate. My stropping compound also doesn't seem to be particularly effective so I may need to upgrade to diamond.

I haven't noticed any burr issues but the Science of Sharp denim strop method seems easy enough that I might as well give it a shot.

I accidentally tapped the faucet while rinsing my Thiers Issard and damaged the edge on the toe. It was bad enough that it left a long scratch on my good leather strop. That's how I knew it was damaged. I had to send mine off to a professional razor honer to fix.

[Doc Dan]

Shaving with a straight razor is beautiful. It is beautiful in a way no other method of shaving can be.

[Doc Dan]

Straight razor blades come in different configurations. Here are the parts of a straight razor:


The jumping may be either on the top or bottom of the tang, or both.

The toe is the front edge and may be pointed or rounded. The point is the front end of the razor.

The spine (top of the blade) is followed by the shoulders, which are the widest part of the razor blade. German makers often measure the size from the shoulder and Americans and others from the spine. So, for example, a Ralf Aust German made razor is measured from the shoulder and his 5/8 blade is actually 6/8 total, whereas an American made razor that says 5/8 is measured from the spine and is 5/8 total. see below



The square point is sometimes called the American point. The Spanish point and barber's point have a notch where some barbers put their finger when doing fine detail work. I think the Spanish point just looks cool and I have one, but mine is a slightly rounded off, not as much as a barber's point, but enough to be safer and more comfortable. The round point is the safest blade style and is what is usually recommended for beginners, though a lot of advanced shavers prefer this style.



Here are the most common blade sizes. Next to the 6/8 one may find a 13/16 marking and a 7/8 marked as 15/16, instead. Most of my razors are 6/8. The Japanese razor is measured from the spine, the French and the Australian razors are measured from the shoulder. The Chinese 5/8 is measured from the spine.

Here is a site I found with helpful information: https://www.nakedarmor.com/blogs/news/h ... ight-razor

[Doc Dan]

4] The Post Shave. Once the shave is completed, use cold water to wash all of the soap and its residue off of one’s face. Cold water, as in tap water cold, not refrigerator cold, will firm the skin and help the whiskers to retreat to their normal status. Rinse the face fully and then pat dry. Don’t rub as that stretches the skin in ways that may have detrimental effects years later.

Once dry, splash on some witch hazel. Witch hazel is an astringent that will constrict the skin on the face and neck. This acts like a skin toner. It closes the pores opened up by the hot water and shaving. It is germicidal and will help kill bacteria. These two things, toning and killing germs, prevent blackheads and pimples. Alcohol can damage, dry out, or further damage skin, but witch hazel won’t do those things. If it has aloe vera or something in it, it will soften the skin, too. Witch hazel will also act as an anti-inflammatory and remove redness and irritation.

Following this, apply some after shave balm of good quality to moisturize the face and neck. A good quality body or face lotion will work, as well.

[sal]

Hey Doc,

All great information. We need to talk about your creating manual?

I'm currently the hunt for a new assistant. Once I find one, I'll contact some of the current makers suggested and see if I can get a "Branded" version.

sal

[Doc Dan]

Hey Doc,

All great information. We need to talk about your creating manual?

I'm currently the hunt for a new assistant. Once I find one, I'll contact some of the current makers suggested and see if I can get a "Branded" version.

sal

I sent you an email.

The manual sounds like a great idea.

[Doc Dan]

Now, the question is, what blade style? Round point (best all around and for beginners), pointed AKA American point, Spanish point, modified Spanish point (I like this), barber's point (dangerous), or French point?

I'll take some pictures of some of mine and post them.

[vandelay]

I like barber's point the most out of all of them. This is just for aesthetic reasons. I've only tried a dutch point razor.

[Cl1ff]

I think I’d like the square or rounded points most, so “American”, “Dutch”, or “French”.

[Doc Dan]

Let's talk a bit about blade grinds.



Here you can see two full hollow ground blades that have a horizontal stabilizer ground into the blade. This is also called a belly. This helps stiffen the otherwise slightly flexible thin blade. You can see next to them a full or extra hollow grind and a wedge grind.

My S.K. Colling has this stabilizer, though it is slight, and it shaves nice and comfortably. It doesn't have a shoulder or vertical stabilizer (see post above). My Thiers Issard has a shoulder or a vertical stabilizer, but is extra hollow and has no horizontal stabilizer. It shaves very well, but if I lift the razor too much it can be a little harsh to let me know my angle isn't right.



Here, you can see, looking end on, various blade grinds, full, quarter, etc. You can even see a frame back, which is a very thin, flat blade with a frame mounted to the spine to stiffen and strengthen the blade. You can see a near wedge and a true wedge, also. Think about a Spyderco with a full flat grind and one with a very, very slight hollow grind. This makes for very stiff and unforgiving blades, but they will cut through even the thickest beard.

All of my razors are full hollow ground. It isn't that I think the others aren't any good, it is that I have no experience with them. Some of you probably do. I started with a hollow ground and stayed with what I knew. (My favorite hunting/skinning knife is a high, thin hollow grind and boy does it cut! Only my points and the lengths of my blades vary.

[kennbr34]

I started using a straight razor about two years ago with a Gold Dollar. To be honest, I mostly just got got one to have an excuse to get finer stones haha I learned how to reset the bevels and sharpen them. I also re-profiled the Gold Dollar, as it came with a 21 degree angle, which is fairly obtuse for a straight razor. Got it down to a more standard 16. I think I paid about $15 for it, but it had some really ugly acrylic handles and Gold Dollar apparently runs their steel very soft, so I wanted something a little nicer.

I decided I wanted to restore a vintage one, so got this vintage one off eBay for $8.

It wasn't in terrible shape, but it needed a little TLC.

First things first, I got those old scales off. They're some kind of bone, cow probably--aparrently that's what was common around that time. Using some flush cutters or wire cutters to cut the rivets is easy, however the pins were still held in with quite some friction, so it was a bit of a delicate process pulling them out.

Then I sanded the scales down, taking out some chips. I only used up to about a 200-300 grit, so that way I could then submerge them in some mineral oil and they would soak it up. That helps restore some of the luster and adds some needed moisture and strength to the bone.

Afterwards, the blade was of course the main priority. I used some Rust-Oleum rust remover (basically just phosphoric acid) to remove most of the surface rust. That will leave you will a very highly patina'd surface, so the next step is sanding. Lucky there was not very severe pitting, but there's still a little that wouldn't have been worth the trouble sanding out. I sanded up to 400 grit, and then used a Dremel with a buffing wheel loaded up with some buffing compound. No idea what kind since it actually came with a TurtleWax headlight restoration kit, but I use it often on knives and like the finish it leaves.

I also cut a little bit off the heel where someone who owned it before me had grinded onto the stabilizer bar. I just used a nickel to trace a radius, and a Dremel with a cut off wheel to cut it off. You have to be really careful doing that for obvious reasons, but one not so obvious reason is you don't want to ruin the temper on the steel by letting it get hot. You can so the same thing on a hone to avoid that, but I spent years in a machine shop grinding tool bits so trusted my skill to keep it cool.

After that I had to put a new edge on. I used a Shapton Kuromaku 2k to set the new bevel, then continued to sharpen it on a 5k and 8k, and finished on a strop loaded with green compound until it passed the Hanging Hair Test. There's loads of people who will say it's nothing like sharpening a knife... But I really disagree, and honestly find it much easier since the spine acts as an angle guide. I'm sure like anything, there's probably other little considerations that would eek our little performance benefits, but I had no problem applying my knife sharpening experience and common sense to get serviceable straight razor edges.

After all that, putting the scales back on was simple enough. I bought a little "pinning" kit from Maggard's Razor supply that was essentially a couple of nails and washers. I had to use the Dremel again to ream the holes in the washers out a little for the pins to fit through, but after that it's a simple matter of cutting the pins flush with the washers and then peening them.

End results:

Not bad for something from 1917--at least, that's the most reliable date I could estimate based on a catalog listing someone on Reddit found. I'm still not exactly sure who manufactured it, as it was originally sold out of a "Moline Barber Supply Co." and they stamped their name on the tang. But from what I can find, ALTZ is the actual manufacturer and were based in Sollingen, which was one of the epicenters of straight razor manufacturing in those days.

Anyway just wanted to share since going the restoration route can be very rewarding. I hardly ever want to use my Gold Dollar now, but I think I would be really on board with a Spyderco one.


Anyone else think 14C28N would make a great steel for a straight razor? From what I remember, Kershaw had Sandvik reformulate 13C26N (equivalent of AEL-B) with nitrogen to increase corrosion resistance and hardenability. It has a great reputation for being very fine grained and being able to take a very fine edge. Larrin Thomas speaks very highly of it: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/06/15/ ... ife-steel/

I think the only real benefit of using something else would be added hardenability, but I wonder how hard a straight razor should really be. I mean, you'd think getting it as hard as possible would be best, but I wonder how that will affect how easy it is to sharpen them, and with edges that fine I'd worry about chipping on the stone.

[vandelay]

Anyone else think 14C28N would make a great steel for a straight razor? From what I remember, Kershaw had Sandvik reformulate 13C26N (equivalent of AEL-B) with nitrogen to increase corrosion resistance and hardenability. It has a great reputation for being very fine grained and being able to take a very fine edge. Larrin Thomas speaks very highly of it: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/06/15/ ... ife-steel/

If you look through Larrin's micrograph article, 14C28N doesn't look that fine compared to AEB-L. Some of the lower carbide PM steels also have a very fine grains. LC200N also looks good.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/ ... fe-steels/

It would be interesting to know if some of the higher carbide steels would work in a razor either. The edge is so thin, it's possible they would be too brittle.

[Doc Dan]

A hard razor blade makes for many more satisfying shaves between sharpenings and the razor lasts longer. Thiers Issard run their at 64, while other makers are in the 61 to 62 range.

Those super hard thin blades on a straight razor can shatter if dropped.

[jpm2]

End results:

Nice rescue.
As for steel, my opinion is it should respond favorably to bare leather stropping.

[Doc Dan]

Even a Thiers Issard, as hard as those blades are, will respond to bare leather stropping. I just have to do a few extra passes, maybe ten or so.

[jpm2]

After that I had to put a new edge on. I used a Shapton Kuromaku 2k to set the new bevel, then continued to sharpen it on a 5k and 8k, and finished on a strop loaded with green compound until it passed the Hanging Hair Test. There's loads of people who will say it's nothing like sharpening a knife... But I really disagree, and honestly find it much easier since the spine acts as an angle guide. I'm sure like anything, there's probably other little considerations that would eek our little performance benefits, but I had no problem applying my knife sharpening experience and common sense to get serviceable straight razor edges.

I too used to think sharpening a razor was the same as a knife but eventually learned different.
There's a lot more to a good shaving edge than passing hht.

[kennbr34]

After that I had to put a new edge on. I used a Shapton Kuromaku 2k to set the new bevel, then continued to sharpen it on a 5k and 8k, and finished on a strop loaded with green compound until it passed the Hanging Hair Test. There's loads of people who will say it's nothing like sharpening a knife... But I really disagree, and honestly find it much easier since the spine acts as an angle guide. I'm sure like anything, there's probably other little considerations that would eek our little performance benefits, but I had no problem applying my knife sharpening experience and common sense to get serviceable straight razor edges.

I too used to think sharpening a razor was the same as a knife but eventually learned different.
There's a lot more to a good shaving edge than passing hht.

Like I said, I hear that a lot, but just have had a different experience. Maybe I also just don't sharpen knives like other people and already sharpened them more like a razor? *shrugs* My main point is just that I think more people should try it for themselves rather than assume they need to send it to a professional to get a serviceable shaver. Wouldn't be that surprised if someone found my straight's edge subpar compared to a professional's work either, but they work for me. But I'm also the kind of guy that is happy with some cheap lager and bourbon over an IPA and scotch, so I'm not very discerning :P

And yeah, sure the HHT isn't like, the end-all and be-all test, but I was just saying that's where I stop and shave with it, and I haven't found much desire for sharper. Only thing I really care about after that is just that it's smooth enough to not chew my face up and pull/tug; I mean I can get my pocket knives to pass the HHT off a 600 grit DMT hone, but shaving with them sure doesn't feel great. And yes I have done so many times just for kicks and giggles.

I have been thinking about getting a 12k stone to finish on instead of the compound though, just because messing with the compound is kind of finnicky. I don't like having to reapply it, and always end up applying too much or too little, and with doing all the finishing on it, it sure loads it up quicker than I imagine finishing on a 12k and then doing a few quick passes on the compound would do. As it stands now, after my 8k, I probably have to do 50-100 passes on the green compound to get it where I like it. Plus there's just the mystery of, "Well maybe it is nicer finished on a 12k?"

One thing that was super disappointing was Shapton's 12k Kuromaku. I dunno if I got a counterfeit or the QC was lacking, but the 12k I got was noticeably coarser than the 5k. That's why I swapped it out for the 8k and then stuck with green compound as a finisher.

Anyway, kind of straying off the subject... But as far as a Spyderco straight razor goes, I think I would also try a kamisori if they tried one. Seeing as they have so many knives made in Seki, that seems like it would be more than possible to get an authentic one too wouldn't it?

[sal]

Hey Doc,

All great information. We need to talk about your creating manual?

I'm currently the hunt for a new assistant. Once I find one, I'll contact some of the current makers suggested and see if I can get a "Branded" version.

sal

I sent you an email.

The manual sounds like a great idea.

Hi Doc,

Where did you send the email?

sal