Dragonfly steels… and other things

[Caz]

Have your tried the Stretch XL? See if it works with your thumb, it is sooooo awesome! Due to length restrictions, I don't carry it often but if there wasn't a 3.5" limit, the XL would replace my Endela.

I haven’t tried the XL yet as it looks even bigger than the regular Stretch 2. If you’ve tried the Stretch 2, how does the XL feel compared to it.

[MournfulCongregant]

In other news, I’m back to being stuck in the internal conflict of trying to decide between the Police and the Endura now. I think I’m sure about it being serrated and in K390. But still stuck.

Hey, Caz.
That's a big problem. If you figure out the answer, let me know and I'll go out and buy one, too. I want a K390 Spydie Edge knife and haven't been able to make a decision.

I have both an Endura and a Police 4 in K390 with a plain edge. The Endura is the Goldilocks size--it's nice to carry, it's nice in the hand, it's nice to use. But I almost never carry it. The Police 4 is bigger, and why would I carry a smaller knife when I can carry a bigger one?

Now that I've typed it out, it kind of makes sense for me to get the Police 4 K390 SE.

I have the K390 serrated Police 4 LW, love it! Changed my outlook on knives!

[z1r]

Have your tried the Stretch XL? See if it works with your thumb, it is sooooo awesome! Due to length restrictions, I don't carry it often but if there wasn't a 3.5" limit, the XL would replace my Endela.

I haven’t tried the XL yet as it looks even bigger than the regular Stretch 2. If you’ve tried the Stretch 2, how does the XL feel compared to it.

For me at least, the handle doesn't substantially larger in a way that makes it awkward compared to the Stretch 2. Definitely suggest trying one in hand if possible. I'm not a big knife person, but the XL is just amazing. I prefer it hands down to my Native Chief. Just feels better.

[Caz]

Have your tried the Stretch XL? See if it works with your thumb, it is sooooo awesome! Due to length restrictions, I don't carry it often but if there wasn't a 3.5" limit, the XL would replace my Endela.

I haven’t tried the XL yet as it looks even bigger than the regular Stretch 2. If you’ve tried the Stretch 2, how does the XL feel compared to it.

For me at least, the handle doesn't substantially larger in a way that makes it awkward compared to the Stretch 2. Definitely suggest trying one in hand if possible. I'm not a big knife person, but the XL is just amazing. I prefer it hands down to my Native Chief. Just feels better.

Sounds good. I will check it out. I haven’t tried a Native Chief yet but I’m really liking the Stretch 2.

[R100]

So I ended up with an Endura. It fits my hand in that two of my fingers fit / fall where they are supposed to without issue.

Good on ya! Finding a knife that is just right is better than finding the perfect pair of shoes or a new IPA. My Size 10.5 hands are good with everything from the Police 4 down to a Native 5. I've found that the Middle Finger Spydie Flick is sometimes as good as, or better than, the standard thumb opening. The downside is that the learning curve might leave you with a sore finger or red stains on the floor, so I can't recommend it. But if you decide to go down that road, you'll definitely look cool when you whip out your Endura to cut your sandwich at the coffee shop.

You'll be happy to learn that my Police 4 K390 SE should arrive in the mail today. It's sooner than I expected. Unfortunately, I'm not super-well equipped at sharpening serrated edges, so I just ordered up a Standard Sharpmaker. It's more than I wanted to throw down for an "experiment," but I suppose it had to be done. Sal might need a bigger wheelbarrow to carry the load to the bank this month.

Nice. If you figure out how to sharpen the serrated edges, please make a post. I ordered an Endura SE after my KJ Endura arrived but I’m crap at serrated edge sharpening. I gave up on my sharpmaker (probably gonna sell it) and do better with the Lansky. I recently bought the teardrop rod hoping that would help me on the SE.

Hey Caz, it's worth having a look at a how-to video and persisting with the sharpmaker. It's actually easier than sharpening a plain edge once you get the hang of it. The hot tip is to use a Sharpie on the edge before you start so you can make sure you are hitting the edge and not just the shoulder. You will probably need to use the 40 degree slots.

If you regularly touch it up and keep SE shaving sharp it elevates it to a whole new level. Sure, a blunt SE will still cut but a really sharp one is just awesome.

Dan

[Caz]

So I ended up with an Endura. It fits my hand in that two of my fingers fit / fall where they are supposed to without issue.

Good on ya! Finding a knife that is just right is better than finding the perfect pair of shoes or a new IPA. My Size 10.5 hands are good with everything from the Police 4 down to a Native 5. I've found that the Middle Finger Spydie Flick is sometimes as good as, or better than, the standard thumb opening. The downside is that the learning curve might leave you with a sore finger or red stains on the floor, so I can't recommend it. But if you decide to go down that road, you'll definitely look cool when you whip out your Endura to cut your sandwich at the coffee shop.

You'll be happy to learn that my Police 4 K390 SE should arrive in the mail today. It's sooner than I expected. Unfortunately, I'm not super-well equipped at sharpening serrated edges, so I just ordered up a Standard Sharpmaker. It's more than I wanted to throw down for an "experiment," but I suppose it had to be done. Sal might need a bigger wheelbarrow to carry the load to the bank this month.

Nice. If you figure out how to sharpen the serrated edges, please make a post. I ordered an Endura SE after my KJ Endura arrived but I’m crap at serrated edge sharpening. I gave up on my sharpmaker (probably gonna sell it) and do better with the Lansky. I recently bought the teardrop rod hoping that would help me on the SE.

Hey Caz, it's worth having a look at a how-to video and persisting with the sharpmaker. It's actually easier than sharpening a plain edge once you get the hang of it. The hot tip is to use a Sharpie on the edge before you start so you can make sure you are hitting the edge and not just the shoulder. You will probably need to use the 40 degree slots.

If you regularly touch it up and keep SE shaving sharp it elevates it to a whole new level. Sure, a blunt SE will still cut but a really sharp one is just awesome.

Dan

Hi Dan

Yes that’s the video I used when I first bought it. I also used the sharpie to determine the edge: 40 took the sharpie line right off. My old Dragonfly Salt could still cut even when my VG10 was completely dull (both bought at same time but never sharpened, both used the same). I’ve seen folks sharpen both sides of the Salt but I never got the hang of it.

[RustyIron]

If you figure out how to sharpen the serrated edges, please make a post. I ordered an Endura SE after my KJ Endura arrived but I’m crap at serrated edge sharpening. I gave up on my sharpmaker (probably gonna sell it) and do better with the Lansky. I recently bought the teardrop rod hoping that would help me on the SE.

Until now I've avoided serrated edges because I'm not as good at sharpening them as I am a plain edge. Sal is pretty confident about pairing the Sharpmaker with a Spyder Edge, and I think he knows a thing or two about knives, so I'm finally acquiescing and giving them both a try. I'm also eager to try the Sharpmaker on a plain edge. There are some folks here that do nice work with a Sharpmaker, so there's no reason you and I can't do the same.

[olywa]

It's never wrong to have a Sharpmaker in your sharpening arsenal. After consuming the excellent advice on this forum regarding the care and feeding of Spydie SE blades I have become pretty adept at putting that advice to work. The only difficulty that this introduces for me is in choosing whether or not to go with a PE or SE version when contemplating a new Spydie, because I now appreciate them both equally. Do yourself a favor and add a set of CBN rods to your Sharpmaker. Use them with the recommended level of pressure (light!), and they will become your friends.

[Caz]

I still have my sharpmaker, so I will still try it. However systems where the blade is stationary (and the stones move) work best for me.

[Doc Dan]

VG-10
ZDP-189
K390
H1
Hap-40
Super Blue
S30V
20CV
V-Toku 2
Cruwear
S35vn
VG-10 Damascus

[Caz]

VG-10
ZDP-189
K390
H1
Hap-40
Super Blue
S30V
20CV
V-Toku 2
Cruwear
S35vn
VG-10 Damascus

Thanks. I wish I had a couple of those: ZDP-189, K390 (non Wharnie), HAP40, Super Blue, 20CV, and Cruwear. I don’t know a whole lot about VToku2 though.

[zuludelta]

Thanks. I wish I had a couple of those: ZDP-189, K390 (non Wharnie), HAP40, Super Blue, 20CV, and Cruwear. I don’t know a whole lot about VToku2 though.

V-Toku2 is a non-stainless low alloy tool steel of Japanese origin that, as far as I am aware, is more commonly used in kitchen knives & occasionally hunting knives. It's pretty tough for what it is, and has decent edge retention relative to other carbon steels & low alloy tool steels (Larrin rates it as being both tougher & having better edge retention than 1095).

It's really no great performer when compared to, say, VG-10 (never mind a powder/particle metallurgy steel like S30V) but what I like about V-Toku2 (based on my experience with it in a DF2 sprint) is it is very, very easy to sharpen with even just a cheap, basic aluminum oxide stone. It can take a stable, sticky sharp, hair-whittling edge in no time, and it's very easy to maintain the edge with just a strop & some basic stropping compound. I can totally understand why it's the steel of choice among many premium Japanese chef's knives.

[Caz]

Thanks. I wish I had a couple of those: ZDP-189, K390 (non Wharnie), HAP40, Super Blue, 20CV, and Cruwear. I don’t know a whole lot about VToku2 though.

V-Toku2 is a non-stainless low alloy tool steel of Japanese origin that, as far as I am aware, is more commonly used in kitchen knives & occasionally hunting knives. It's pretty tough for what it is, and has decent edge retention relative to other carbon steels & low alloy tool steels (Larrin rates it as being both tougher & having better edge retention than 1095).

It's really no great performer when compared to, say, VG-10 (never mind a powder/particle metallurgy steel like S30V) but what I like about V-Toku2 (based on my experience with it in a DF2 sprint) is it is very, very easy to sharpen with even just a cheap, basic aluminum oxide stone. It can take a stable, sticky sharp, hair-whittling edge in no time, and it's very easy to maintain the edge with just a strop & some basic stropping compound. I can totally understand why it's the steel of choice among many premium Japanese chef's knives.

Thanks for the information! It sounds similar to VG-10.

[Doc Dan]

Thanks. I wish I had a couple of those: ZDP-189, K390 (non Wharnie), HAP40, Super Blue, 20CV, and Cruwear. I don’t know a whole lot about VToku2 though.

V-Toku2 is a non-stainless low alloy tool steel of Japanese origin that, as far as I am aware, is more commonly used in kitchen knives & occasionally hunting knives. It's pretty tough for what it is, and has decent edge retention relative to other carbon steels & low alloy tool steels (Larrin rates it as being both tougher & having better edge retention than 1095).

It's really no great performer when compared to, say, VG-10 (never mind a powder/particle metallurgy steel like S30V) but what I like about V-Toku2 (based on my experience with it in a DF2 sprint) is it is very, very easy to sharpen with even just a cheap, basic aluminum oxide stone. It can take a stable, sticky sharp, hair-whittling edge in no time, and it's very easy to maintain the edge with just a strop & some basic stropping compound. I can totally understand why it's the steel of choice among many premium Japanese chef's knives.

Thanks for the information! It sounds similar to VG-10.

It's not similar to Vg-10. V-Toku2 is non-stainless, a regular carbon steel. VG-10 is a stainless steel and has better edge retention. I would agree that they are similar in that both will take a keen edge without a lot of fuss.

[Caz]

Thanks. I wish I had a couple of those: ZDP-189, K390 (non Wharnie), HAP40, Super Blue, 20CV, and Cruwear. I don’t know a whole lot about VToku2 though.

V-Toku2 is a non-stainless low alloy tool steel of Japanese origin that, as far as I am aware, is more commonly used in kitchen knives & occasionally hunting knives. It's pretty tough for what it is, and has decent edge retention relative to other carbon steels & low alloy tool steels (Larrin rates it as being both tougher & having better edge retention than 1095).

It's really no great performer when compared to, say, VG-10 (never mind a powder/particle metallurgy steel like S30V) but what I like about V-Toku2 (based on my experience with it in a DF2 sprint) is it is very, very easy to sharpen with even just a cheap, basic aluminum oxide stone. It can take a stable, sticky sharp, hair-whittling edge in no time, and it's very easy to maintain the edge with just a strop & some basic stropping compound. I can totally understand why it's the steel of choice among many premium Japanese chef's knives.

Thanks for the information! It sounds similar to VG-10.

It's not similar to Vg-10. V-Toku2 is non-stainless, a regular carbon steel. VG-10 is a stainless steel and has better edge retention. I would agree that they are similar in that both will take a keen edge without a lot of fuss.

To clarify, I meant similar to VG-10 in terms of ease of sharpening and holding that edge not it’s category of stainless vs non stainless. I’m far more interested in edge retention (toughness is not a huge deal to me). In general, I dislike VG-10 because I seem to always need to sharpen it, however it is easy to sharpen so it almost balances out. I tend to group my favorite steels in stainless vs non stainless categories then I rank all other attributes under that. So basically, at any given point in time, I have two favorites: a favorite stainless and a favorite non stainless. V-Toku2 doesn’t sound like it’s going to overtake either category’s number 1 spot.

[Doc Dan]

V-Toku2 is a non-stainless low alloy tool steel of Japanese origin that, as far as I am aware, is more commonly used in kitchen knives & occasionally hunting knives. It's pretty tough for what it is, and has decent edge retention relative to other carbon steels & low alloy tool steels (Larrin rates it as being both tougher & having better edge retention than 1095).

It's really no great performer when compared to, say, VG-10 (never mind a powder/particle metallurgy steel like S30V) but what I like about V-Toku2 (based on my experience with it in a DF2 sprint) is it is very, very easy to sharpen with even just a cheap, basic aluminum oxide stone. It can take a stable, sticky sharp, hair-whittling edge in no time, and it's very easy to maintain the edge with just a strop & some basic stropping compound. I can totally understand why it's the steel of choice among many premium Japanese chef's knives.

Thanks for the information! It sounds similar to VG-10.

It's not similar to Vg-10. V-Toku2 is non-stainless, a regular carbon steel. VG-10 is a stainless steel and has better edge retention. I would agree that they are similar in that both will take a keen edge without a lot of fuss.

To clarify, I meant similar to VG-10 in terms of ease of sharpening and holding that edge not it’s category of stainless vs non stainless. I’m far more interested in edge retention (toughness is not a huge deal to me). In general, I dislike VG-10 because I seem to always need to sharpen it, however it is easy to sharpen so it almost balances out. I tend to group my favorite steels in stainless vs non stainless categories then I rank all other attributes under that. So basically, at any given point in time, I have two favorites: a favorite stainless and a favorite non stainless. V-Toku2 doesn’t sound like it’s going to overtake either category’s number 1 spot.

For me, K390 is the answer. I love this steel. It holds an edge forever. It is best to touch it up rather than let it get dull, but a Sharpmaker will absolutely put an edge on it. It is far easier to sharpen than S110V or S90V, etc. and holds an edge at least as good, or close enough.

[Superflex]

My favorite Dragonfly's are the DLT OD Green in Cruwear and the H1 Serrated Hawkbill FWIW
Great little pocket light sabers

[RustyIron]

For me, K390 is the answer. I love this steel. It holds an edge forever. It is best to touch it up rather than let it get dull, but a Sharpmaker will absolutely put an edge on it.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but you're spot on: K390 is the closest we have to the Holy Grail of knife steels. It resists chipping and deformation more than the REX45, S30V, Maxamet, VG10, Cruwear, Z-Wear, and CPM-M4 knives that are in the drawer right next to me. It's fun stuff to sharpen and work with.

[Caz]

Thanks for the information! It sounds similar to VG-10.

It's not similar to Vg-10. V-Toku2 is non-stainless, a regular carbon steel. VG-10 is a stainless steel and has better edge retention. I would agree that they are similar in that both will take a keen edge without a lot of fuss.

To clarify, I meant similar to VG-10 in terms of ease of sharpening and holding that edge not it’s category of stainless vs non stainless. I’m far more interested in edge retention (toughness is not a huge deal to me). In general, I dislike VG-10 because I seem to always need to sharpen it, however it is easy to sharpen so it almost balances out. I tend to group my favorite steels in stainless vs non stainless categories then I rank all other attributes under that. So basically, at any given point in time, I have two favorites: a favorite stainless and a favorite non stainless. V-Toku2 doesn’t sound like it’s going to overtake either category’s number 1 spot.

For me, K390 is the answer. I love this steel. It holds an edge forever. It is best to touch it up rather than let it get dull, but a Sharpmaker will absolutely put an edge on it. It is far easier to sharpen than S110V or S90V, etc. and holds an edge at least as good, or close enough.

Yes, Spyderco’s K390 is my favorite non-stainless. It’s great except for that potential rust situation. I forced a patina on each of my K390 knives, same process, same solution, same time. The Stretch 2 developed surface rust … but I love that steel.

I don’t have any S110v and S90v, I only have S30v, 20CV, H1, and LC200n.