Compendium of tips for sharpening serrated knives

[Cambertree]

Great thread. :cool: :)

I have just one issue with all of this. And please don't misunderstand me because the stuff that VIVI has put out on this thread is great. But I still take one issue. I really like to sharpen some of my Spyderedged/serrated blades manually with my Spyderco 701 Profiles. And it does obtain a great job if you take your time and make your angles correct.

I find that I can keep them looking factory new if I do it right. But the 701 Profiles aren't just good for patented Spyderco serrations (Spyderedge) they can take on about 85% of all the serration patterns out there. It never hurts to learn to do some skills manually. OH I use my Sharpmaker a lot as well. But I will never retire any of my 701 Profiles.

Yeah I've been looking for a set since the last time you mentioned the 701 Profiles, JD. Haven't had any luck yet though.

I guess it's time to ask for another run again, if you're out there Sal? :)

At the moment I use an Idahone UF cylindrical ceramic rod for the large scallops, and the edge of the Doublestuff 2 for the narrow teeth. Both held freehand.

And the Sharpmaker, of course.

[tonijedi]

My Salt 2 also matches the 20 degrees slot much better than the 15 degrees. The 15 degrees hit on the top of the serrations.

Just as on my Pac Salt (see some posts above), right?

Yes, exactly, that's why I wrote this.

[Pancake]

Have someone tryed wrapping sandpaper around SM rods to ,,make" a low grit rod? I think it should work for the reprofiling serrated edge.

[Wartstein]

Have someone tryed wrapping sandpaper around SM rods to ,,make" a low grit rod? I think it should work for the reprofiling serrated edge.

I don't think so. While this should work on the flats (and for plain edges), sandpaper wrapped corners would probably not be "cornery" enough any more, but too wide to fit the scallops properly anymore... just my guess though, never tried myself

[JD Spydo]

Have someone tryed wrapping sandpaper around SM rods to ,,make" a low grit rod? I think it should work for the reprofiling serrated edge.

I tend to agree with Wartstein on that one. Unless it's really fine grit on a thin paper that would give you a bit of give to it. I have a couple of instructional videos on "Sandpaper Sharpening" and they are both good videos. But neither one of them recommend the use of Sandpaper for sharpening or working with serrated blades. I won't completely say no to the idea but it would have to be a special application.

I have a question for VIVI or anyone else here concerning stropping. The more I think about it I believe that stropping the back side of a serrated blade might be ideal for eliminating any micro-burrs that might result from a thorough sharpening. I've been using leather boot laces but I'm wondering if there might be something better for stropping serrations?

[Wartstein]

I have a question for VIVI or anyone else here concerning stropping. The more I think about it I believe that stropping the back side of a serrated blade might be ideal for eliminating any micro-burrs that might result from a thorough sharpening. I've been using leather boot laces but I'm wondering if there might be something better for stropping serrations?

Have a look at point 14 in Vivis original post!

[bbturbodad]

Vivi, I'd have a question:

I remember you saying something along the lines, that each Pac Salt SE you got came with an factory angle of 15 degree (one side in that case), so this model was the only one (one of the few?) you did not have to reprofile it to make it meet your preferences (correct me if I am wrong, that´s just what I recall!)

Correct. I have reprofiled every PE Spyderco that I've kept around. My Pacific Salt's with the 15 degree SE are the only ones that felt thin enough at the edge to leave at the factory angle.

Now: When I use the sharpmaker in the 15 degree slot on my Pac Salt, the rod clearly hits the blade quite high above the apex on the "shoulder" (don´t know if this is the correct english term). See first pic below
On the other hand, when using the 20 degree setting I can get it sharp very quickly.

Your terminology is correct. I've read reports from a few others that their Pacific Salts did not come ground at 15 degrees like mine. No idea why there is such a variance, but it isn't unusual based on what I've read. Every SE Pacific Salt I've sharpened matched the 15 degree slots perfectly. I own 5 and have touched up a few for friends.....they all matched.

I am experienced enough with the sharpmaker to keep the correct angle, for comparison I used the 15 degree setting on my HAP 40 Endura, and it clearly hit the apex (see second pic below).

So: Did I get you wrong? Or are there variants between Pac Salt models?

Nope, this is normal. Not sure if there is any pattern to which Pacific Salts got which edge, but for what it's worth I've never sharpened a yellow handled SE Pacific, only black handled SE and PE, and a few PE with yellow handles. Aside from that I can't think of any patterns between the 15 and 20 degree Pacifics.

To be clear: I am perfectly happy with my Pac Salt as it is and don´t care at all with what particular factory angle it comes. I am just courious.

If I were you I'd simply use it as is if you're happy with it. Even if it came with a 20 degree edge, that's still much thinner than a typical PE factory knife. Reprofiling SE knives isn't fun (Not that PE are), and it's easy to round the points in the process.

My SE Pacific with the black blade has been sharpened for years and still has very pointy teeth. My satin finished that was mangled when I traded for it was reprofiled before I carried it and the tips are quite rounded off now. I think someday that knife will turn into PE :p

I picked up two Pacific Salts today one yellow, one black. As Vivi mentioned above it may be that the black version is sharpened at the factory to 15° and the yellow to 20°. I haven't sharpened them yet but the black one is much more acute than the yellow and as a result is MUCH more slicey.

[Doeswhateveraspidercan]

Nice shot makes your-point arrrgghhhhh bad pun perfectly can clearly see the difference.

[vivi]

Mine all have wider bevels like the black one.

[Wartstein]

.

I picked up two Pacific Salts today one yellow, one black. As Vivi mentioned above it may be that the black version is sharpened at the factory to 15° and the yellow to 20°. I haven't sharpened them yet but the black one is much more acute than the yellow and as a result is MUCH more slicey.


[/quote]

zuzu

[Wartstein]

Mine all have wider bevels like the black one.

Can it really be that Spyderco gives the black handled PAc Salts a more acute angle than the yellow handled ones, deliberately and generally? (Don´t doubt that this obviously is the case sometimes)

Would seem a bit odd to me... and more complicated in the manufacturing process: I would have thought they just make a bunch of SE blades, all in the same way and grinded the same, and a bunch of black and yellow handles, and then just attache the blades

/ Regardless, I am more than happy with the slicing capabilities of my (about) 20 degree yellow handled one... but will sure have a look later if my black handled backup (sitting NIB at home in the drawer) appears to have an even more acute angle.

[Wartstein]

There is a lot of mystery surrounding how to sharpen serrated knives. I know that serrated knives would enjoy more popularity if people understood how to sharpen them as universally as plain edges.

....

Vivi and others, what do you think about the method the guy uses in the vid I linked below (starting about at 1:00) ? Deburring the "non scallop side" of the blade on the FLAT (and not the corner) of a rod? Any advantage / disadvantage in your opinions?

https://youtu.be/059JiOcum84

[Hobnob]

That's interesting on the 2 different color Pac Salts. I have one of each color and the grind is the same (15). However, on all 3 of my Salt 2's the angle is 20. The scallops are wider and deeper on the Pac Salts. Hope this helps those that own both using the SM.

[Tims]

There is a lot of mystery surrounding how to sharpen serrated knives. I know that serrated knives would enjoy more popularity if people understood how to sharpen them as universally as plain edges.

....

Vivi and others, what do you think about the method the guy uses in the vid I linked below (starting about at 1:00) ? Deburring the "non scallop side" of the blade on the FLAT (and not the corner) of a rod? Any advantage / disadvantage in your opinions?

https://youtu.be/059JiOcum84

I’ve played with deburring on both corners and flats.

With the flats, unless you hold the whole face of the blade to the stone, only the points will make contact. The corners are necessary to follow the profile of the scallops.

[Wartstein]

There is a lot of mystery surrounding how to sharpen serrated knives. I know that serrated knives would enjoy more popularity if people understood how to sharpen them as universally as plain edges.

....

Vivi and others, what do you think about the method the guy uses in the vid I linked below (starting about at 1:00) ? Deburring the "non scallop side" of the blade on the FLAT (and not the corner) of a rod? Any advantage / disadvantage in your opinions?

https://youtu.be/059JiOcum84

I’ve played with deburring on both corners and flats.

With the flats, unless you hold the whole face of the blade to the stone, only the points will make contact. The corners are necessary to follow the profile of the scallops.

Thanks for your reply!

I get what you mean and it totally makes sense: So you only could deburr the "flat" / "non scalloped" side of an SE edge if you´d press the whole blade totally flat on the rod (and by that you´d scratch up the whole blade also of course), right?

Any idea what the thought process of the guy in the vid may be??
After all he seems to be rather professional (makes a living out of sharpening) and does deliberately not follow what is shown in the manual and instructional dvd for the sharpmaker (which would be: Using the corners for sharpening AND deburring of SE blades. Though as a matter of fact when following the sharpmaker instructions you´d also give the "flat" side of the blade an angle over time, so make the whole edge more obtuse)

[Tims]

There is a lot of mystery surrounding how to sharpen serrated knives. I know that serrated knives would enjoy more popularity if people understood how to sharpen them as universally as plain edges.

....

Vivi and others, what do you think about the method the guy uses in the vid I linked below (starting about at 1:00) ? Deburring the "non scallop side" of the blade on the FLAT (and not the corner) of a rod? Any advantage / disadvantage in your opinions?

https://youtu.be/059JiOcum84

I’ve played with deburring on both corners and flats.

With the flats, unless you hold the whole face of the blade to the stone, only the points will make contact. The corners are necessary to follow the profile of the scallops.

Thanks for your reply!

I get what you mean and it totally makes sense: So you only could deburr the "flat" / "non scalloped" side of an SE edge if you´d press the whole blade totally flat on the rod (and by that you´d scratch up the whole blade also of course), right?

Any idea what the thought process of the guy in the vid may be??
After all he seems to be rather professional (makes a living out of sharpening) and does deliberately not follow what is shown in the manual and instructional dvd for the sharpmaker (which would be: Using the corners for sharpening AND deburring of SE blades. Though as a matter of fact when following the sharpmaker instructions you´d also give the "flat" side of the blade an angle over time, so make the whole edge more obtuse)

That bloke’s method is flawed.

His method of deburring on the back side will leave a small portion of the edge untouched by the stone. The ‘valley’ of the scallop.

This will become more pronounced as the scallop becomes deeper, ie, the distance between the point of the serration and the valley of the serration becomes greater.

He’s leaving some sharp on the bench. He may be getting away with it on those cheap, shallow serrations but wouldn’t get away with it on a Seki Slyderedge.

Test: lay your serrated blade, back side down, flat against a stone. As if you were deburring at 0 degrees. Hold it up to a light and see that there is zero light between the blade and the stone.

Now, slowing lift the spine of the blade while keeping the edge in contact with the stone. You will start to see light appear in the valley of the scallops. The light represents the unsharpened edge you will get with this mans method.

Hope that makes sense

[Wartstein]

https://youtu.be/059JiOcum84

That bloke’s method is flawed.

His method of deburring on the back side will leave a small portion of the edge untouched by the stone. The ‘valley’ of the scallop.

This will become more pronounced as the scallop becomes deeper, ie, the distance between the point of the serration and the valley of the serration becomes greater.

He’s leaving some sharp on the bench. He may be getting away with it on those cheap, shallow serrations but wouldn’t get away with it on a Seki Slyderedge.

Test: lay your serrated blade, back side down, flat against a stone. As if you were deburring at 0 degrees. Hold it up to a light and see that there is zero light between the blade and the stone.

Now, slowing lift the spine of the blade while keeping the edge in contact with the stone. You will start to see light appear in the valley of the scallops. The light represents the unsharpened edge you will get with this mans method.

Hope that makes sense

Thanks! Yes, it totally makes sense, and I could absolutely see that even after your first reply.

Just thought: HOW can a guy (the one in the vid) NOT see this, given he obviously is really into sharpening, there actually IS a manual for the sharpmaker and it would be no problem at all to put both rods corner to corner.... ??? So I suspected, maybe there is something I just don´t see.

But, yeah, I too think now he just makes a really unnecessary mistake in doing so, nothing else... :o

[Tims]

That bloke’s method is flawed.

His method of deburring on the back side will leave a small portion of the edge untouched by the stone. The ‘valley’ of the scallop.

This will become more pronounced as the scallop becomes deeper, ie, the distance between the point of the serration and the valley of the serration becomes greater.

He’s leaving some sharp on the bench. He may be getting away with it on those cheap, shallow serrations but wouldn’t get away with it on a Seki Slyderedge.

Test: lay your serrated blade, back side down, flat against a stone. As if you were deburring at 0 degrees. Hold it up to a light and see that there is zero light between the blade and the stone.

Now, slowing lift the spine of the blade while keeping the edge in contact with the stone. You will start to see light appear in the valley of the scallops. The light represents the unsharpened edge you will get with this mans method.

Hope that makes sense

Thanks! Yes, it totally makes sense, and I could absolutely see that even after your first reply.

Just thought: HOW can a guy (the one in the vid) NOT see this, given he obviously is really into sharpening, there actually IS a manual for the sharpmaker and it would be no problem at all to put both rods corner to corner.... ??? So I suspected, maybe there is something I just don´t see.

But, yeah, I too think now he just makes a really unnecessary mistake in doing so, nothing else... :o

No idea mate. He’s human I guess. I’ve come across this sort of unintentional misinformation before with sharpening. It does make me think some peoples edges are maybe not as sharp as they purport them to be.

I’ve given poor information in the past and I’m sure I’ll give more in the future but with age I’ve learned that when it comes to advice giving, shoot for quality over quantity.

[bbturbodad]

Posted this to the wrong sharpening thread earlier but I think I'll try #5 and see if I can get the small serrations.

5. Try using alternating passes when you sharpen, with some strokes going heel to tip, and others going tip to heal. The theory is when you do this it makes it easier to hit the entire serration on both sides. (I do not use this method, but others have success with it.)

[vivi]

Posted this to the wrong sharpening thread earlier but I think I'll try #5 and see if I can get the small serrations.

5. Try using alternating passes when you sharpen, with some strokes going heel to tip, and others going tip to heal. The theory is when you do this it makes it easier to hit the entire serration on both sides. (I do not use this method, but others have success with it.)

I think that would work for you based on the photo. Looks like you're hitting most the bevel pretty cleanly, but getting a little bounce as you go over the serrations.