Stretch 2 Saber Grind BD1N G-10 Diamond Weave

[Bloke]

"Don't let the bastards get you down"!

Ah, hahaha!
Are you Australian? We seem to have a bit in common because I couldn’t give a flying duck as to what anybody says. Let alone someone at a keyboard that doesn’t know me, but good manners never go astray.

I'm a bit curious as to how many of you are hunters?

Up until just before I joined the forum I used to hunt or shoot ferals more weekends than not, year round and actually bought my ZDP-189 Stretch in the hope of carrying it afield to dress the small Fallow Deer I used to target. I’d never dressed any game with a folder before hand and when I got the knife I realised why I used fixed blade knives in the first place. I don’t think any folder save a Salt Series knife would fair too well immersed in blood and gore as is with lung-heart shot game.

I much prefer a small fixed thin bladed knife to dress game with and as a matter of fact the last little fallow I shot I dressed with a Gerber Mimming (because I lost my Gerber Pixie years earlier) and used a 5” flexible swept back Dexter Russell boning knife to split the breast bone, relying more on the blade’s geometry and brute force than actual sharpness or any finesse.

Anyhow, we all do the same things differently and that’s cool but I personally would not entertain the idea of a saber grind knife to dress game with. :)

[ZrowsN1s]

I think what the OP REALLY wants is a Native 5.... shaped exactly like a Stretch 2... with a Saber Grind... BD1N... and G-10 Diamond Weave

[Frozenspyder]

I've been picturing a Stretch 2/Tatanka hybrid. With a different steel and that sweet diamond weave texture, of course.

[Wartstein]

Hey All,

Would love to see Spyderco offer the Stretch 2 with a saber grind blade of BD1N (63 rockwell) with G-10 scales with diamond weave pattern.

This would be a beefier knife for field use and not for opening letters or cutting boxes. The saber grind benefits are threefold: 1) beefier working knife, 2) added thickness so the unit is more comfortable in hand than the previous g10 model which feels a bit thin, 3) balance of knife is shifted from being tail heavy to a balance point under the 2nd finger when the first finger is in the finger choil. Throwing in the diamond weave pattern to dress it up some visually and offer a slight different tactile experience.

So what you think? Thought I would run a poll with lots of choices so you can express how you feel.

CG

After having already posted a reply, I began to think more thoroughly about the idea, and my reply will be more nuanced after that (so I am guilty of "shooting to fast"... )
Reason why I contemplated the design suggestion more in-depth was, that I handled my seldom used sabre grind Endura, cause I plan to do a thread comparing it to the FFG Endura and to point out the few areas where the sg still is better imo.

Still, the Stretch in the current blade shape for me personally is not the knife blending in well with a sabre grind. Especially that inward / downward curve of the spine. But: Sal mentioned that he is thinking about a Stretch with an Endura blade shape (so a straight spine), in such a model I see a sabre grind working and looking much better.

As mentioned, for some applications I still like my sabre grind Endura, so a sabre grind knife with the Stretch handle, ergos and compact closed size, but a straight spine (meaning change nothing concerning blade shape, just straigthen out that curve, (which would make the blade taller in this area) could be something I´d like.

What I don´t understand in the OPs first post is, why a sabre grind would add thickness to the handle, unless what is meant here is actually that the blade stock generally would be thicker. If that is the case, in order to create a beefier work knife, I would consider doing a very high, almost non existent sabre grind like the Shaman has. The thicker blade stock (and maybe less distal taper) would make the knife (and the tip) beefier anyway, so a real sabre grind would probably not be necessary but overkill and hinder the slicing ability of the blade - ?

I am not a hunter, I just worked on a sheeps farm for a short period of time and assisted in skinning the sheep. But that was in the late eighties, so I really can´t remember any details.
Still, I (as a layman) was of the opinion, that a hunting knife should be not to thick and "clunky" like a sabre grind tends to be, but more delicate and slicey?! I could be totally wrong though and am glad to be corrected and to learn.

[cycleguy]

All,

Certainly OK to throw out the OP and propose a new platform or start from scratch.

Here are a couple more clips on BD1N:

https://youtu.be/MR8s4EFli0E

https://knifenews.com/are-we-entering-t ... de-steels/

Time will tell,

CG

[wrdwrght]

Probably just as well. That way we need not disrespect history.

The Stretch is, after all, a hunting knife already, one that Sal originated with, you know, the Hunter model in 1983, then s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d and otherwise refined over several decades, to answer even better, with evident success, the needs of, you know, hunters, not mere letter-openers and box-cutters.

Having weighed your ideas against Sal’s long demonstrated design-chops, I made my earlier comment. If my comment offended you, you’re certainly free to disregard it, or cast it in whatever light serves your purpose.

ETA: Squashed some grammar bugs.

[Wartstein]

All,

Certainly OK to throw out the OP and propose a new platform or start from scratch.

CG

Cycleguy, I am a little confused, honestly... ?! Who did "throw out the OP"? In your initial post you proposed an idea and literally asked "so what you think?"

Several people posted, "what they think", a majority of those had not enough interest in the knife you described to wanting it beeing produced.

I myself even re-considered my first post, admitted, that I replied to fast, contemplated your idea once more and disussed in detail what I like in it, and what I´d maybe do differently (not much, in fact; Just straigthen the spine in a sabre grind version or make it a very high sabre grind if the blade stock was thicker).

I mean, that´s one of the main points of this forum and happens all the time: Someone shares an idea, new design, design change... and people discuss it. And in my personal experience (admittedly I am still quite "young" here) generally in a very respectfull and constructive manner.

So what am I missing? Thats an honest and with all due respect asked question, for I am always a little afraid THAT I am missing something (or offending someone) unintentionally due to my deficits in the english language.

Anyway,if I am one of those you feel did "throw you out" I am sorry for that, even though I can´t exactly see how my posts could be interpreted in that way.

[cycleguy]

All,

Certainly OK to throw out the OP and propose a new platform or start from scratch.

CG

Cycleguy, I am a little confused, honestly... ?! Who did "throw out the OP"? In your initial post you proposed an idea and literally asked "so what you think?"

Several people posted, "what they think", a majority of those had not enough interest in the knife you described to wanting it beeing produced.

I myself even re-considered my first post, admitted, that I replied to fast, contemplated your idea once more and disussed in detail what I like in it, and what I´d maybe do differently (not much, in fact; Just straigthen the spine in a sabre grind version or make it a very high sabre grind if the blade stock was thicker).

I mean, that´s one of the main points of this forum and happens all the time: Someone shares an idea, new design, design change... and people discuss it. And in my personal experience (admittedly I am still quite "young" here) generally in a very respectfull and constructive manner.

So what am I missing? Thats an honest and with all due respect asked question, for I am always a little afraid THAT I am missing something (or offending someone) unintentionally due to my deficits in the english language.

Anyway,if I am one of those you feel did "throw you out" I am sorry for that, even though I can´t exactly see how my posts could be interpreted in that way.

Just a comment saying it is open for discussion for all the nay-sayers; the opposition doesn't bother me and I'm open to hearing what people have to say. For myself, I've not changed my position from the OP. Clear?

CG

[Wartstein]

All,

Certainly OK to throw out the OP and propose a new platform or start from scratch.

CG

Cycleguy, I am a little confused, honestly... ?! Who did "throw out the OP"? In your initial post you proposed an idea and literally asked "so what you think?"

Several people posted, "what they think", a majority of those had not enough interest in the knife you described to wanting it beeing produced.

I myself even re-considered my first post, admitted, that I replied to fast, contemplated your idea once more and disussed in detail what I like in it, and what I´d maybe do differently (not much, in fact; Just straigthen the spine in a sabre grind version or make it a very high sabre grind if the blade stock was thicker).

I mean, that´s one of the main points of this forum and happens all the time: Someone shares an idea, new design, design change... and people discuss it. And in my personal experience (admittedly I am still quite "young" here) generally in a very respectfull and constructive manner.

So what am I missing? Thats an honest and with all due respect asked question, for I am always a little afraid THAT I am missing something (or offending someone) unintentionally due to my deficits in the english language.

Anyway,if I am one of those you feel did "throw you out" I am sorry for that, even though I can´t exactly see how my posts could be interpreted in that way.

Just a comment saying it is open for discussion for all the nay-sayers; the opposition doesn't bother me and I'm open to hearing what people have to say. For myself, I've not changed my position from the OP. Clear?

CG

Clear! Thanks.

[Enactive]

I am not interested in a saber grind Stretch. I like thin BTE flat grinds from thin stock. ...Except when i want a scandi grind. :)

[cycleguy]

I suspect everyone's understanding of hunting/hunter's knife could be different so I am going to back up a little bit here.

Here are some tasks one may associate with hunting/hunter's knife (feel free to add to it):

1) Misc camp duty
2) Constructing a makeshift blind
3) Field Dressing
4) Skinning
5) Quartering
6) De-boning
7) Butchering

The first four are the tasks that I would use a hunter's knife to perform with three and four the priority. As I referenced around post 18 and thought I had stated/implied in the opening post, the thicker spine blade is a better fit (for my uses and holds and to centrally balance the knife). I'll stick with the saber grind but don't think it is key if it is a saber grind, a convex full height grind, or the Shaman full height wedge grind (I really don't know what to call this one). But I do think the saber gives a better (thicker and larger) flat to pinch grip and also provides strength when poking and twisting and prying (Yes I push the knife a little here beyond being a slicer when removing the lower front leg from the upper; a saw is not needed).

I also did a double take on the re-curve shaped spine then decided to go with it. I like that I can use that shape for feedback as to how close or far from the tip my index finger is when pinching the blade and the spine is riding against my index finger. Sometimes I do this hold when opening up the belly. The index finger provides a degree of separation between the stomach and the hide and helps to keep the tip from slicing the stomach wall. That little hump is a speed bump letting you know your about to be on the tip so proceed with caution. (I've never taken to jimping at the front of the blade).

Don't know if you are aware of it or not, but the Stretch 2 G10 is about 3/64" slimmer than the Stretch 1 FRN (You'll have to convert to your metric units), and balances just in front of the backlock finger recess so about front of third finger when first finger is in the finger choil. I'd like to see this get moved forward to under the second finger when the first finger is in the finger choil; the thicker spine when added and manipulated can achieve this .

So there it is; you guys got me communicating second finger now.

Not feeling thrown out and no apologies necessary. As before, constructive discussion and feedback welcome.

CG

[The Mastiff]

I'm also interested if it was flat ground. Diamond weave if it isn't adding extra costs. I'd be fine with FRN. In fact I'd prefer it.

Joe

[Wartstein]

I'm also interested if it was flat ground. Diamond weave if it isn't adding extra costs. I'd be fine with FRN. In fact I'd prefer it.

Joe

May I ask: If it was flat ground and if it was FRN, it would be essentially the already existing Stretch anyway, right? Or do you mean a Stretch in (just) thicker blade stock?

[Bloke]

Hey Cycle, as per my last post I’ve killed and field dressed plenty of game in my time. By field dress I mean as you’d see a carcass in a butcher shop. In the ‘80’s Fox pelts were worth a pretty penny here in Oz and I’ve taken a few of them too.

In my experience the knife you described/envisage does not exist and I know the knife I use to chop wood ect. around camp won’t be the knife to skin anything, won’t mask a fox, unhinge a pigs jaw or cape a deer as would a knife sharpened and deligated to the task in hand.

Just my $AU0. O2c worth. :)

[Sumdumguy]

I am not a hunter and unless the game is bovine, I never will be. I fish.

However, in a past life I was a banquet sous. During this time, I processed everything from cows to venison(skin, debone, etc.)
In all the time I did that, not once was the knife anything but ffg.

Not saying it wouldn't work, just that ffg works better. I see no sense in changing the grind to make it perform worse doing the task it was designed for.

Imagine if I went to my local Ferrari dealership with the only requirement being that it has to tow my boat... If strength for construction tasks is a concern, I'd tote around a fixed blade or better yet, a hatchet. Not a Ferrari.

[The Deacon]

Given that I own at least one of every other Stretch variant, I'd probably buy one. But, if I did, I can't see it ever finding its way into my pocket. Full flat grind works great for the things I do with my EDC knives and, IMHO, saber grind would degrade slicing performance. I think the claim that saber grind would be "better" for hunting is dubious. Besides, if I ever were to go hunting again, I'd carry a fixed blade, as I always did in the past. Sal may have designed the Stretch as a hunting style knife, but that doesn't mean I'd want to use mine for that. No idea where BD1N falls on the corrosion resistance scale, so not sure I'd carry a Stretch in it, even if it were FFG. There's also the question of whether G Sakai would be willing to work with it. Also not sure what the OP means by "diamond weave" G-10, or if such a product actually exists. I'd have to see that to have an opinion on it.

[Wartstein]

Given that I own at least one of every other Stretch variant, I'd probably buy one. But, if I did, I can't see it ever finding its way into my pocket. Full flat grind works great for the things I do with my EDC knives and, IMHO, saber grind would degrade slicing performance. I think the claim that saber grind would be "better" for hunting is dubious. Besides, if I ever were to go hunting again, I'd carry a fixed blade, as I always did in the past. Sal may have designed the Stretch as a hunting style knife, but that doesn't mean I'd want to use mine for that. No idea where BD1N falls on the corrosion resistance scale, so not sure I'd carry a Stretch in it, even if it were FFG. There's also the question of whether G Sakai would be willing to work with it. Also not sure what the OP means by "diamond weave" G-10, or if such a product actually exists. I'd have to see that to have an opinion on it.

Cycleguy (OP) already posted, where you can look at "diamond weave G10", I may cite this here: Go to spyderco.com, type "Native 5 forum" in the search box. The forum knife 2013 has "diamond weave G10". Looks good and useful imo and sure is a very good idea and pattern especially for a skinning knife, since it enhances "grippyness" most certainly.

[PayneTrain]

I'm not a hunter (yet), but I did have a decent career as a butcher, and I'd never want to carve an animal with a saber ground knife. Nor would I expect the knife that I'm using to do the slicing to also chop through bones or joints. I'd much rather carry two purpose-built tools that each do their job well than carry one that isn't great at either. I use my FRN Stretch all the time on food, and it makes a great boning knife (if a little short). I'll occasionally break out a Mora Classic when I need to bust through a turkey's ribcage, only to save the fine edge of my boning knives. Then I resume with something thin and flat ground.

Also, let's not discount the ability of the current Stretch. It's not fragile! As long as you aren't using it in a manner that you shouldn't use any folder, it will be just fine. Again, I'll give you that wanting something with more thickness for comfort is a fair ask, but I think you're going to be sacrificing performance for it. I say give the current Stretch a try first. I think you'd be quite pleased. And if you need something to push hard on, well, I'd bring a fixed blade for that!

[Doc Dan]

I do not think there are many saber grind lovers here. I do not care for them. I very high and thin hollow grind would get my attention, but an FFG is still king.

[guywithopinion]

No offense, really, and maybe I'm missing something here. But I just don't see how wrdwrghts comment is "dismissing the OP as a person"? In any case I am sure it wasn't intended to do so.

It seemed implied to me, but probably should have been explicit. Dismissing him as a person who can offer up knife suggestions. I.e. within the context of this forum. I don't know how else you can read his comment. He only deems knife designs that came from Sal, Eric, or a Spyderco collaborator to be worth his consideration. I.e. who is this guy to make a suggestion. One is certainly welcome to feel that way, but why would you respond to someone that way.

People like you are what's wrong with the world. You get so butthurt over such insignificant things, ones that have no bearing on you.

OP asked if we liked the idea, most didn't. Nothing to get upset about.

LOL, I'm glad it caused you so much angst that it's affected your view of the entire world. The OP asked what people thought of his idea. Not what people thought of whether he was qualified to have ideas. And the bearing it has on me is reading rude replies to people who are just looking to have a discussion. The same bearing my post had on you that caused you to project the hurt in your own butt outwards.