Let's talk about Vanax

[Surfingringo]

I looked it up. Are we talking Vanax 75 or 35?.

Hey Dan, I think the idea of the nitrogen is to replace carbon, thus increasing the corrosion resistance. I believe there is only one Vanax being made now and according to the link that Nate provided (thank you Nate) the current Vanax has the same composition as the old Vanax 35. I'm not positive though so I just sent an email to Uddeholm requesting confirmation on that. I'll update if I learn anything new.

I have the data sheets and H/T instructions that Bohler provided with the steel for this knife. The steel is Vanax Superclean. It has a different composition from both 75 and 35. C 0.36, N 1.55, Si 0.30, Mn 0.30, Cr 18.2, Mo 1.10, V 3.50.

..What HRC was it taken to?

HRC 60

:)

I got a response from the guys at Bohler Uddeholm yesterday and according to them, Vanax 35 and 75 were both developing grades and the new VANAX is a new composition altogether that is based on what they learned from working with those two.

Hey Chad, I hope you felt a sense of pride when you saw that picture of one of your babies. :D You should. This one is beautiful and one mean cutter! Thank you my friend! You might need to cover your eyes in the coming weeks though because I'm gonna beat this one like a rented mule.

[Surfingringo]

Ok, I just got a very detailed email back from Bohler Uddeholm. I will paraphrase the more salient points.

*The current Vanax is an evolution of Vanax 35 and 75. It is somewhat close to Vanax 35 but has been modified to further enhance properties. The most notable differencse are adjustments to carbon and nitrogen content with minor adjustments to other elements. Property improvements include better corrosion resistance, improved ductility and more uniform microstructure.

There is still a LOT of testing to be done but results are looking promising so far. The test knife was coated in very high salinity saltwater last night and left in its kydex sheath for 12 hours. Upon inspection this morning there was zero visible corrosion and there did not appear to be any corrosion induced edge degradation. Upon inspection with a loupe there was some very light staining visible on the edge bevel (325 grit finish). I'm reticent to start drawing conclusions based on this short test but that is fairly impressive initial performance compared to even the most corrosion resistant stainless steels currently available. e.g. S110v Lots of testing yet to go and more will be revealed.

[Xplorer]

...Hey Chad, I hope you felt a sense of pride when you saw that picture of one of your babies. :D You should. This one is beautiful and one mean cutter! Thank you my friend! You might need to cover your eyes in the coming weeks though because I'm gonna beat this one like a rented mule.

:D Super proud to see it in action! While I am a bit nervous knowing how one of my babies is about to be treated...I'm really looking forward to seeing how it handles the abuse you're about to put it through. I hope you too are proud of that beautiful design of yours. I'm anxiously awaiting news about how this steel actually performs for you. I'll be contacting Bohler later today to get more Vanax SC sent my way so I can make more of these and test one myself. Have fun fishing out there in Utah today bro! I want to see a picture of a giant Lake Trout next :D .

CK

[xceptnl]

I'm waiting for The Mastiff...

Joe will drop in soon with more insight on Vanax, though I am not sure how much actual use he has been exposed to in this steel.

[Zenith]

I had a look at the patent, or at least what I believe is the patent for Vanax. It covers quite a large field with regards to chemical makeup (patent containing 10 different chemical steels for testing) so I would not be surprised if they keep tweaking it as time goes by. Made for plastic mold industry, injection molding and cold working for forming dies, the main attribute is its Corrosion resistant in these uses.

Either way, since Nitrobe 77 is getting less and less Vanax seems to be the next best thing with LC200N after that IMO for nitrogen steels.

[Johnnie1801]

Come on Sal, give us a lw Urban Salt sprint in Vanax :D

[Surfingringo]

It's been mounted on the kayak and covered in salt 24/7 for almost a week and a half now. Corrosion resistance is proving to be VERY high so far. Not enough exposure yet to compare results to lc200n/H1 but it has already proven to be far more corrosion resistant than any other "normal" stainless steel. Jury is still out on edge performance.

[sal]

We've not had any luck in getting some from BU. We've been trying to get Vanax since it was first introduced many years ago. We'll try again.

sal

[Surfingringo]

Sal. I've told those guys twice to reach out to you. I'm really surprised you haven't heard from them.

[Johnnie1801]

We've not had any luck in getting some from BU. We've been trying to get Vanax since it was first introduced many years ago. We'll try again.

sal

Sal, any chance you can get the factory in Italy to order it and make a sprint run in one of the Italian models or do you need to get some in Golden first to test?

[Xplorer]

Sal, any chance you can get the factory in Italy to order it and make a sprint run in one of the Italian models or do you need to get some in Golden first to test?

I don't mean to step on Sal's toes here but in case he doesn't see your question or get time to respond... I can tell you this version of Vanax is a brand new product that is being tested by a limited few people for the first time, right now. There's no way Spyderco will have an un-tested steel go into a production knife. Until they get some in Golden and have a chance to test it thoroughly it isn't even up for consideration. Surfingringo happens to be one of those lucky few and so you're seeing a sneak peak at a product that (if tests go exceptionally well) could show up in production knives a year or 2 from now.

Chad

[JD Spydo]

We've not had any luck in getting some from BU. We've been trying to get Vanax since it was first introduced many years ago. We'll try again.

sal

I find that extremely strange :confused: especially with the sales potential that Spyderco would have for another Nitrogen based blade steel and the possible huge expanse of the Salt Series which just gets more popular each passing day.

I've just heard some platter-chatter about it on a couple of forums but I have no experience with it what so ever. But I'm a huge fan of Bohler Uddeholm's great quality blade steels. I'm wondering if it is some type of specialty steel maybe not really intended for cutlery.

With that being said I do think that Nitrogen based steels will eventually be really big in the cutlery industry overall.

[AKBEAR]

I would LOVE to see a Vanax 37 PM2...any even better with one with partial serrations for ropes near salt water... just sayin'

We've not had any luck in getting some from BU. We've been trying to get Vanax since it was first introduced many years ago. We'll try again.

sal

[krikun98]

A Vanax Pattada, perhaps?

[curlyhairedboy]

new steels are always exciting. gonna keep an eye on this thread!

[thewoodpecker]

Subbed.

[Surfingringo]

And the testing continues. The most interesting Thing i have learned so far is that with this new Vanax, we now have access to another steel that is essentially rust proof. I have subjected this steel to my normal corrosive “torture testing” and it has passed with flying colors. It has seen over a month of 24/7 exposure that will have steels like s110v showing spotting in 4-6 hours. I have yet to create one spot of rust on the Vanax and I have not noted any edge degradation due to corrosion.

Edge performance has been more of a mixed bag. The first 2 or 3 weeks of testing I was getting subpar performance and was seeing very tiny micro chipping that was causing the knife to dull more quickly than what the composition would indicate. I spoke with the engineers and reps at Uddeholm and based on our conversation I re-tempered at a higher temp to increase toughness and hopefully improve edge stability. There has been a marked improvement in results since the re-temper. The edge is now performing at a MUCH more acceptable level. I still need to do some cutting tests to compare it to some known steels like cpm154 and lc200n. IF this Steel can outperform Lc200n in abrasion resistance and edge performance then it could be a very interesting option for some knives requiring high corrosion resistance.

*Honestly, I feel like I am better at accurately assessing corrosion resistance than I am wear resistance. I would love to see some other folks (and Spyderco) do some more performance testing with this Steel so we could begin to compare performance notes.

[Johnnie1801]

I've been interested in this steel for a while and following the thread. I hope Sal and the crew have some of this steel on the way.

[Doc Dan]

Lance, how does it hold up to the fish scales? That stuff will dull a knife very fast. Also, why do you think it was chipping? Was it run too hard? When you re-heat treated it, did you go up or down in hardness?

[bearfacedkiller]

Thanks Lance, keep the info coming. :)