Share your experience with 15V

[alphaneuron9]

I think it's been a decent amount of time since the BBB 15V came out... I finally just got one.
Please comment, send pics, etc on your experiences? Sharpening methods? "Chipability" - whatever anything and everything

[ladybug93]

i got a very small chip from stripping a wire with my manix. i was kind of bummed about it because it was brand new, but i didn't even bother to try and touch it up. the blade still cuts great. i've never even put it to stones. granted, i'm not a real heavy user and i rotate through quite a few knives, but i'm still really impressed by this steel.

i also accidentally hit my phone with the tip of my blade while flicking it open last week. it was dumb. i was just playing with my knife and not being careful. it dulled the very tip a tiny amount and cut my screen protector (it's really weird that it didn't crack... just cut a very small line).

just from those few instances and from carrying it around and using it here and there, i'd say it has very good edge holding. it can be slightly chippy, but mine has seemed to be almost self healing since neither issue has been an issue and seems to have somehow evened out with just light use.

i haven't had any issues with corrosion either, which i was worried about. i've had cruwear and even vg10 develop spots on me. if i remember correctly, i coated this one with frog lube when i first got it.

[TkoK83Spy]

I believe there's a thread in here already where 15V is talked about quite a bit. I'll see if I can find it and post it.

Found it...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=93878

[alphaneuron9]

i got a very small chip from stripping a wire with my manix. i was kind of bummed about it because it was brand new, but i didn't even bother to try and touch it up. the blade still cuts great. i've never even put it to stones. granted, i'm not a real heavy user and i rotate through quite a few knives, but i'm still really impressed by this steel.

i also accidentally hit my phone with the tip of my blade while flicking it open last week. it was dumb. i was just playing with my knife and not being careful. it dulled the very tip a tiny amount and cut my screen protector (it's really weird that it didn't crack... just cut a very small line).

just from those few instances and from carrying it around and using it here and there, i'd say it has very good edge holding. it can be slightly chippy, but mine has seemed to be almost self healing since neither issue has been an issue and seems to have somehow evened out with just light use.

i haven't had any issues with corrosion either, which i was worried about. i've had cruwear and even vg10 develop spots on me. if i remember correctly, i coated this one with frog lube when i first got it.

Hey man, thanks for that. Means a lot that you shared.



First thing I did with mine, took it apart and put generous amounts of EDCI on every part that was made of metal. I live on an island and rust is a real issue. Shawn Houston recommended the EDCi... One nuance: I did not wipe it off and it gave the action a "stickiness" to it. This resolved completely with mineral oil but not Hops no 9 oil.

Honestly worried about getting it wet. Not just with salt water, anything... food prep, whatever.

[alphaneuron9]

I believe there's a thread in here already where 15V is talked about quite a bit. I'll see if I can find it and post it.

Found it...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=93878

Hmmm... I'm hoping there will be updates to those experiences?

[Wandering_About]

It's my favorite steel far as pure edge performance goes. I am not a "hard user" and use pretty thin edges, but 15V has held up very well for me. My usage definitely favors higher hardness and wear resistance steels. Corrosion resistance has been great for a tool steel. I am finally finding some tiny spots of patina after a lot of carry. 15V also sharpens up crazy well, deburrs like a dream and comes up SHARP. I use only diamond abrasives with it, usually the edge is set on a 1000 grit super vitrified stone and finished on a smooth leather strop loaded with 1 micron diamond.

Been carrying this 15V PM2 since I got it at the beginning of the year. This is by far my most carried and used 15V knife. I think it's become my most carried knife in general.

[Danke]

No chipping. Picks up patina faster than Cruwear but nowhere near as fast as M4.

[kennbr34]

As far as corrosion goes, I had an unfortunate accident with some bleach with my Manix. I really didn't like it, so I ended up forcing a patina.




The steel has held up fine for me. I have it ar about 15 dps. I encountered some micro chipping when I cut up a kitty litter box and it hit some of the clay. Sharpened out really easy though. But it also tends to chip on my coarse stones, though only big enough to see through 60x magnification.

I have definitely got more use out of my mule...



But it's mostly just been used for shredding up cardboard. It cut up about 2000 feet of cardboard with it before it lost a good three finger bite, but it would still cut pretty well.

I really like the 15V but honestly I don't find the wear resistance to be that much higher than 10V/K294. It does however seem to take a much toothier edge off my DMT F finishing hone. Very bored on a three finger test, though weirdly a little lower on the BESS score than 10V/K294. Meanwhile 10V/K294 finishes up a little easier on a ceramic whetstone.

[JoviAl]

I’ve got the 15V shaman and have been pleasantly surprised with its corrosion resistance. I douse it with KPL Knife Shield after each day’s work and it has yet to show any corrosion at all, not even galvanic (I’ve had S90V galvanically corrode in my pocket over the course of a single day at work. I’m in Singapore mind you, so it’s pretty damp in there!).

As for toughness and chipping at 15DPS I’ve had zero issues, although the shaman is fairly thick blade stock. Most of my cutting with the Shaman is carving/shaving wood, which it does with great aplomb. I still prefer Magnacut, but 15V is no slouch.

[apollo]

As far as my experience go's my Shaman keeps its edge amazingly good. So good infact that i only needed to strop it now and then and that's still it it havent seen or needed a sharpmaker as its still is a good user sharpness for me personally. I Cut a wide variaty of materials from cardboard to wood to hard plastics and softer stuff.
Its still perfectly rust free at this time.
But that isnt so remarkable since i always clean my knife after use. And for now only my 10v K2 only got a few spots all my other spydies seem to hold up great no matter the steel theyre made from.

[vivi]

none so far. might try it if it makes its way to a chief, millie, etc.

[TkoK83Spy]

I feel like a lot of factory edges get some chipping, micro chipping. Can't really judge a steel until you put it to the stones...NOT talking about medium/fine Sharpmaker rods either. 2 of my 3 knives in my personal favorite Rex45 had some chipping to the factory edges. Once reprofiled and slimmed down, no longer an issue and incredible performance ever since. I'd expect even better from 15V. I unfortunately haven't used my 15V Manix very much, so I haven't even bothered putting a new edge on it yet. Not as much free time at home lately.

[kennbr34]

I feel like a lot of factory edges get some chipping, micro chipping. Can't really judge a steel until you put it to the stones...NOT talking about medium/fine Sharpmaker rods either. 2 of my 3 knives in my personal favorite Rex45 had some chipping to the factory edges. Once reprofiled and slimmed down, no longer an issue and incredible performance ever since. I'd expect even better from 15V. I unfortunately haven't used my 15V Manix very much, so I haven't even bothered putting a new edge on it yet. Not as much free time at home lately.

I re-profiled mine from the factory, and the Mule has been brought to the coarse hones (Atoma 140 and Shapton Kuromaku 120) twice already. It's not like micro-chipping is going to lead to a blade disintegrating in use, but I can't deny it's present either. For example, when my edge chipped slightly cutting up kitty litter boxes, I did that test deliberately to simulate cutting through dirty material with hard debris, and I suspect that the micro-chips acted as stress-risers where a larger chip propagated from. However, by "large" I really only mean that it could be seen without magnification; it was still easily taken out by resharpening, so I'm not even mentioning it as a mark against it, just a reality. I'm sure someone will attribute it to my tools/techniques, which is fine and probably valid to some extent, but I haven't experienced the same with other reputedly chippy steels like D2 or ZDP-189 using the same methods. Plus, I have experienced the same with K294/10V, so I don't think the issue is with 15V as much as it is just with high-carbide steels; I suspected hardness to be one factor, but I see the same tendency with Kizer's 10V, which is undoubtedly a lot softer than Seki's K294 or Golden's 15V.

Just for a little more information/perspective, I initially re-profiled my 15V Mule to 15dps using an Atoma 140, followed by a Shapton 120 Kuromaku (which is actually finer than the Atoma), and a Shapton 2k Kuromaku. I then finished on a DMT F (25 micron) because I prefer that finish and have better control with that one. I've done that whole progression twice now on the 15V Mule, and it still ends up with micro-chips visible at 60x-120x. Yet cutting through 2000+ feet of clean cardboard didn't result in any problems.

So I really doubt it's a matter of a burnt factory edge. I've been told that the ceramic whetstones tend to burnish more than abrade and so could have resulted in a fatigued apex that could be why this happens, but I don't have any other diamond hones between the Atoma and the DMT to use those exclusively to see. Meanwhile, my DMT is a little credit-card sized one, so expecting it to remove the Atoma's scratch pattern is like pushing a boulder up-hill. I hope to get the full line of Atoma from 400-1200 soon, so maybe I will see a difference using those exclusively.

[TkoK83Spy]

Very good feedback!

[Deadboxhero]

23% of the volume in the 15v is harder than ceramic.
When shaping a sub micron area at the apex it's nice to be able to cut all features to shape rather than only 77% of it.

Use bonded diamond/cBN.

Don't waste money on atoma/DMT
Those work best for flattening ceramic stones.

This isn't 2003 anymore, it's 2023 and there are a lot of bonded diamond/cBN products on the market.

Such as the venev resin bonded diamond from Gritomatic, Nanohone resin bonded diamond. Columbia Gorge Works Resin Bonded diamond etc

I feel like a lot of factory edges get some chipping, micro chipping. Can't really judge a steel until you put it to the stones...NOT talking about medium/fine Sharpmaker rods either. 2 of my 3 knives in my personal favorite Rex45 had some chipping to the factory edges. Once reprofiled and slimmed down, no longer an issue and incredible performance ever since. I'd expect even better from 15V. I unfortunately haven't used my 15V Manix very much, so I haven't even bothered putting a new edge on it yet. Not as much free time at home lately.

I re-profiled mine from the factory, and the Mule has been brought to the coarse hones (Atoma 140 and Shapton Kuromaku 120) twice already. It's not like micro-chipping is going to lead to a blade disintegrating in use, but I can't deny it's present either. For example, when my edge chipped slightly cutting up kitty litter boxes, I did that test deliberately to simulate cutting through dirty material with hard debris, and I suspect that the micro-chips acted as stress-risers where a larger chip propagated from. However, by "large" I really only mean that it could be seen without magnification; it was still easily taken out by resharpening, so I'm not even mentioning it as a mark against it, just a reality. I'm sure someone will attribute it to my tools/techniques, which is fine and probably valid to some extent, but I haven't experienced the same with other reputedly chippy steels like D2 or ZDP-189 using the same methods. Plus, I have experienced the same with K294/10V, so I don't think the issue is with 15V as much as it is just with high-carbide steels; I suspected hardness to be one factor, but I see the same tendency with Kizer's 10V, which is undoubtedly a lot softer than Seki's K294 or Golden's 15V.

Just for a little more information/perspective, I initially re-profiled my 15V Mule to 15dps using an Atoma 140, followed by a Shapton 120 Kuromaku (which is actually finer than the Atoma), and a Shapton 2k Kuromaku. I then finished on a DMT F (25 micron) because I prefer that finish and have better control with that one. I've done that whole progression twice now on the 15V Mule, and it still ends up with micro-chips visible at 60x-120x. Yet cutting through 2000+ feet of clean cardboard didn't result in any problems.

So I really doubt it's a matter of a burnt factory edge. I've been told that the ceramic whetstones tend to burnish more than abrade and so could have resulted in a fatigued apex that could be why this happens, but I don't have any other diamond hones between the Atoma and the DMT to use those exclusively to see. Meanwhile, my DMT is a little credit-card sized one, so expecting it to remove the Atoma's scratch pattern is like pushing a boulder up-hill. I hope to get the full line of Atoma from 400-1200 soon, so maybe I will see a difference using those exclusively.

[kennbr34]

23% of the volume in the 15v is harder than ceramic.
When shaping a sub micron area at the apex it's nice to be able to cut all features to shape rather than only 77% of it.

Use bonded diamond/cBN.

Don't waste money on atoma/DMT
Those work best for flattening ceramic stones.

This isn't 2003 anymore, it's 2023 and there are a lot of bonded diamond/cBN products on the market.

Such as the venev resin bonded diamond from Gritomatic, Nanohone resin bonded diamond. Columbia Gorge Works Resin Bonded diamond etc

I'd love to try the bonded stuff, but the only reason I'm even considering the Atoma line is because of how cheap electroplated diamond hones have gotten since 2003.

[vivi]

If I could get bonded diamond stones under triple digits, and I weren't completely happy with the edges I get off budget plated diamond stones, I'd be all about getting new stones.

I tried the venev pocket stone to try out bonded diamond stones, and while the feedback is a little better than say, DMT, the edge it gave me didn't seem anything special compared to old school plated diamond stones.

Plus the plated stuff never dishes.

[Subverto]

15V has quickly become my favorite steel. Been carrying a PM2 in it all summer and I'm a pretty sweaty dude. Doesn't show any sign of corrosion or patina. Stays sharp for a ridiculously long time (comparable to Maxamet in that regard) and is extremely easy to sharpen (with Hapstone CBN stones). Burr forms very easily and is a piece of cake to remove.

So long story short: easy to sharpen, edge lasts forever, and it appears to be fairly corrosion resistant for a tool steel. What's not to love?

[Deadboxhero]

You get what you pay for.

Bonded stones are completely different than electroplated stones.

Just like with knife steel, It's not just the carbides or with stones the diamonds that are so important, but also the matrix that supports them.

With electroplated stones It is not a renewable surface. Once that single layer of diamond or CBN wears out you'll need to buy a new one.



Figure 1a: brand new Atoma, abrasive grains rest on surface causing rough surface finish.


Figure 1b: used Atoma, less cutting performance due to reduced abrasive grain volume from tear out and dull grains. Corrosion due to loading.

When you buy a resin bonded stone it is at minimum 1 mm thick with abrasive all the way through with a renewable surface that can be conditioned.

Diamond and CBN grains will go dull. Just because they are super hard, doesn't mean they can hold their sharp cutting facets forever.

When dulling happens, it's nice to be able to condition the abrasive grains on the stone surface without tearing everything out of the plating.

Electroplated stones are more prone to tear out.



Figure 2: A closer look at the abrasive grain tear out on the atoma from use, some areas of diamonds have been completely uprooted while others have been sheered off leaving a flat diamond "root" behind.

Electroplated stones will also will make an extremely rough surface finish at the SAME grit rating since the plated abrasive grains protrude so high from the plating allowing them to penetrate deeply into the steel that is being cut.

A resin diamond stone will leave a brighter, smoother finish with less deep scratches than a plated stone. The abrasive grains are also more secure since they are bedded into the resin stone rather than sitting on top surface like on the plated stone.


Figure 3: a CGSW resin bonded diamond stone, diamond abrasive (yellow) in a "sea" of resin (white)


In conclusion, the resin diamond stones will also have more longevity, stay sharper and will be less prone to premature damage and can be reconditioned when comparing to a plated stone.

So, a plated stone is not simply a cheaper option, it's a completely different option.

23% of the volume in the 15v is harder than ceramic.
When shaping a sub micron area at the apex it's nice to be able to cut all features to shape rather than only 77% of it.

Use bonded diamond/cBN.

Don't waste money on atoma/DMT
Those work best for flattening ceramic stones.

This isn't 2003 anymore, it's 2023 and there are a lot of bonded diamond/cBN products on the market.

Such as the venev resin bonded diamond from Gritomatic, Nanohone resin bonded diamond. Columbia Gorge Works Resin Bonded diamond etc

I'd love to try the bonded stuff, but the only reason I'm even considering the Atoma line is because of how cheap electroplated diamond hones have gotten since 2003.

[vivi]

They still don't need to be flattened, cost 1/10 to 1/4th the price, and last me, someone who sharpens knives way more than the average person, for years and years.

Yes, plated diamond stones do wear out eventually, but my 20 year old diamond stones still put great edges on knives so its at such a slow rate I don't even care. Even my $12 dirt cheap 4 sided harbor freight stones last for years without ever needing to be flattened.

Bonded stones are nice but getting some better feedback isn't worth all the drawbacks for me.