I Hate Japanese Spydies, Sorry

[mastiff]

I was going to comment on the Sucky City Japan thread but was alerted to it being an old thread.

I never thought to make a thread about it but my experience has been the same as Tarrnacks but on a larger scale. I came to the conclusion that I will never in my life buy another Japanese made knife from Spyderco. I know that sounds harsh but after so many chances you have to cut bait. This means that the Tasman 2 that I want so badly will never be mine. Oh well, it won't kill me. Here is the list of ills of my Japanese Spyderco knives in the order that I bought them-

Before anyone goes there, I bought all knives from Blade Forum recommended dealers except the Delica which came from Amazon as I didn't know any better. We're talking Blade HQ, National Knives, and Knifecenter for the rest.

1. Delica 4- Gritty action and very sharp opening hole. Took it apart and cleaned it because rinsing with soap and water did not work. Sandpaper and dowel to the hole. I figured it must be a fluke. My nephew ended up with it as his first pocket knife.

2. Stretch- Gritty action, very sharp opening hole, lock bar stick. Same as before only this time taking it apart didn't fix it. I even polished the bronze washers! When I inspected the pivot whole it looked like someone has used a broken or dull bit to drill it out. It was still gritty even after all I did. Dowel and sandpaper to the hole again. Lock bar had what appeared to be quite a bit of dust sandwiched in between it and one scale and was easily rectified. I still chalked it up to being a fluke.

3. Caly 3.5- The worst. Gritty action and what I assume is either very poor heat treat or production fault. The pivot was full of G10 shavings, so much so that I actually hysterically laughed. It must have been assembled by someone that was either blind or mentally disabled. I couldn't believe how much was packed in there. It almost looked purposeful. It cleaned out though. The main problem is the missing chunk or what looks to be un-ground forging around the outside of the pivot hole in the blade. It has a gritty powdery feel and it looks like the metal snapped off instead of being ground off. For that to make it past QC, well you read what I wrote about the pivot. I still have it as shortly after I got it it was disco'd so no way to get it fixed and I wouldn't pawn this turd off on another poor unsuspecting slob like myself. It's brand new still in the box. At this point I was starting to get angry.

4. Endura 4- Same story as the Delica 4. I fixed it myself. At this point I believe I must be part of the Spyderco factory doing my own QC and finishing. I still have it and it makes a great field expedient pairing knife. Still angry though, as I believe that nobody is this unlucky.

5. and 6. Original Tasman and Salt 1- Both came with gritty actions. The holes were for once not sharp and were smoothly drilled. Of course H1 is like butter so that doesn't say much. Same as the Delica and Endura they were taken apart (actually cussing at myself because only a crazy person would have believed that they'd get a different result) and cleaned out yet again. My God people, clean your work space or buy an air-nozzle as I have to assume they've heard of air compressors in Japan. They both ended up with my brother because he thought they were cool. I decided then that I'll never buy another Spyderco made in Japan.

I own Spydies made in every other country save Italy. They just don't have anything I've been interested in. Every other Spyderco I have has functioned and been reasonably well finished including to my sincere surprise the Chinese made Spydies. I know i should be more forgiving but 6 chances is so above being fair that not a single person on the planet could convince me to change my mind. Will I miss out on some Spydies? Sure, but I won't have to do someone else's job for them ever again. I half expected this from China, but from Japan it's just downright insane.

I was so disenchanted that I actually disappeared from this board and mostly from the blade forum Spyderco board completely. The Sliverax is what caught my attention and I came here just to look for info on it but got drawn back in.

And for those that think I may be kidding or lieing here is the Caly 3.5-

[bearfacedkiller]

Sorry you had such bad luck. Have you tried to sort any of these issues out with customer service?

I think most people's issue with the other thread was not so much that it was old but that it had an inflammatory title. That often distracts from constructive discussion. I cannot say that this title is much better. What do you want this thread to accomplish?

[tripscheck'em]

Haven't had this bad of an experience with Japan, but I can confirm that they come from the factory rough. Problem I noticed was the transition from the lockbar to the blade, that area was uneven on an Endura and Police 3. Made me worried that the lock was perhaps compromised, it looked like the lock wasn't fully engaging because the lockbars were so much taller than the transition to the blade, and that area pinched when you really pressed into the thumb jimping.

I do however have a Delica that is well made, no complaints.

[xceptnl]

I am sad to hear about your unfortunate experiences. I just did a head count and have about 21 Japanese made spydies, none of which I can recall having any of the issues you expressed. I know some could write your experiences off as OCD, but I consider myself one of the worst in that dept. As BFK mentioned above, have you attempted any customer service communications?

[Wrathhog]

Nothing too terribly bad to say about Seki knives, but I've almost accepted the fact that any knife I buy nowadays I will have to work on out of the box. If it's not a blade off centered so bad it rubs, it's a pivot that someone tightened with a torque wrench. I guess people like myself are part of the problem. Instead of sending some of this crap back to the manufacturer, I just fix it myself. I'd wager a guess that for every knife sent back for warranty work, there are ten more that either get fixed by the owner, thrown in a drawer, or sold on the secondary market to be someone else's problem. I understand that every knife isn't going to be perfect, but some of this stuff is becoming an epidemic in the knife world. This isn't a knock against Spyderco, just manufacturers in general. I've gotten a new knife each of the last 4 weeks, all US made, different manufacturers. Three were perfectly fine, one was a dumpster fire.

[Doc Dan]

I have had zero issues with my Japanese made Spydercos. I am sorry the OP has, though. I actually own more Japanese made knives than any other country of manufacture. I should note that the reason I have not bought a Caly 3.5, which I would love to have, is that I have read of many complaints on that particular knife.

[elduderino04]

Just out of curiosity, mastiff, were any of the models you had sprint runs? I have heard that the QC on sprint runs might be somewhat tighter than normal production runs.

Certainly my Hap 40 Caly 3 has pretty fantastic fit and finish (as one example, the lockbar and liners appear to be one solid piece of metal until viewed very closely. I believe they even pass the fingernail test, which means the tolerance is fairly significantly less than one thousandth of an inch.) I also haven't noticed any issues with either my super blue or nishijin dragonflys. Just a thought--if you haven't tried a Japanese sprint run you may consider doing so if one strikes your fancy.

[ZrowsN1s]

I have definitely gotten at least one gritty action, and one sharp hole delica from Seki. But overwhelmingly, the experience has been positive, and none of the ones with issues took more more than 5 minutes to fix (a little oil and sand paper). Next to golden, Seki are my favorite spydies. Bummer you had a bad run of them.

[PSquared]

My experiences and expectations have been very different to yours - I will buy Japanese Spydercos before any other country of manufacture (my first Spyderco was a Delica in the early 90s so I've been doing this a while).

With the exception of your Caly 3.5 that comes out of a factory that has had QC issues recently that don't need to get revisited here, the rest of the issues are, in my mind, not issues at all. The edges on a lot of the Japanese made knives are crisp, they see it as a sign of tight cutting tolerances or something - a few strokes with a Sharpmaker stone sort it out if it bugs you. The grittiness works its way out with a clean and a bit of use. I don't like it either but it is easily fixable.

What I do like about the Japanese knives is the grinds. These people have been making knives / swords for a while and I have yet to get a Japanese knife from any manufacturer that needs to be rebevelled out of the box (I'm at about 50% with the Italian and Taiwanese Spydies on that score). The Japanese FRN models are great value and whilst the Japanese G10 models are more expensive than we think they should be, I'm happy to pay the extra for a knife made by people that have been making knives for a few hundred years. I believe the blades are better (a lot of it perception rather than fact I acknowledge) than the blades made and heat treated elsewhere. After all, I am buying a cutting tool rather than a fidget spinner.

Personally I'm not wild about shipping S30V to Japan when they have stellar VG10 but that's just me.

For the sake of full disclosure, I'm not Japanese but I was born there so I might be a little bit biased

[The Mastiff]

This mastiff loves the Japan made Spydercos. I'm never without my Endura where it's not forbidden and haven't been for 25 years now. The other thread noted a rough Spyderhole. I've said it before that 1) by all means save money where possible like in the Spyderhole. Keep costs down when possible. I have yet to find one that wasn't within reason. 2) Spyderhole needs to not be too polished for grip purposes. I'm not OCD about such stuff and wouldn't let myself spend time worrying about unimportant things.

If I did have a problem I'd take care of it. I wouldn't headline a thread or post in such a fashion and I don't expect people to care if I hate a knife or don't hate a knife .

Other Mastiff

[Bloke]

I too am sorry you've had a bad run.

I also agree with Wrathhog. It seems that almost everything I buy has to be reworked to some extent and knives are no exception so if nothing else I sympathise with you.

I too could make a list of 'defects' on knives I've bought from Spyderco and others but I wonder what it'll achieve? Cowboy off centre grinds aside, the blade tang on my Tasman HB sits a good 0.070" under the lock bar and the FRN scale. It can't be fixed because the tang was over ground. On my big Lum, of the twelve tapped clip screws holes only four in total will except screws. The three holding the clip and one more on the same side. The remainder are tapped but barely. The tap was either worn or broken. It annoys me but I can fix it for the price of a tap. There are a couple more I could mention but none of it really matters too much (to me). :rolleyes:

I just try not to sweat the little stuff in life is all but I fully appreciate we're all different with different expectations. :)

Edit: I must be the slowest typer on the forum! Ah, hahaha!

[FCM415]

This mastiff loves the Japan made Spydercos. I'm never without my Endura where it's not forbidden and haven't been for 25 years now. The other thread noted a rough Spyderhole. I've said it before that 1) by all means save money where possible like in the Spyderhole. Keep costs down when possible. I have yet to find one that wasn't within reason. 2) Spyderhole needs to not be too polished for grip purposes. I'm not OCD about such stuff and wouldn't let myself spend time worrying about unimportant things.

If I did have a problem I'd take care of it. I wouldn't headline a thread or post in such a fashion and I don't expect people to care if I hate a knife or don't hate a knife .

Other Mastiff

There you are. hehe

Guys, Factory grittiness, I am always able to clean out with dawn and a toothbrush. Should we expect no grit etc etc? Up to the individual.

Certain quirks mentioned in these threads I can live with or it doesnt even bother me at all.. or I actually prefer, like sharp spyderholes. Being a Sal/backlock design fan, Im happy with Moki and Seki.

If they upgrade generations old facility to Golden or Taiwan level, expect Lexus prices.

[vivi]

I've had very good experiences with japanese Spydercos. In fact the two in my pocket both come from Seki - Police 3 and an Ark.

My issues have been with Golden made folders, save for one Salt. Off the top of my head:

- Manix 2 XL. Extremely gritty opening and closing action, very bad feeling. Didn't feel like sending it off to Spyderco, or voiding my warranty, so I dunked it in a bowl of hot soapy water, cycled the knife ~20 times, rinsed it out under a faucet, then repeated the process a few times. Lubed the **** out of it, worked the lube in...still gritty as a litter box. That was half a year and 5,000 opening / closing cycles ago. It's still rough. At this point I've learned to not care because it still functions, but it's annoying having a $150 knife have a grittier pivot than my $10 swiss army knives and $20 Byrds.

- Military. My past three Military folders have all had the same problem. If I use them as intended they fall apart in my hands. I don't know what they changed on the pivot but my old Military models did not have this issue. My CPMD2 Military, S30V DLC and CTS204P Military all have a pivot that falls apart after about 40 open and close cycles. FWIW I never flick my knives, or even spydero drop them. I use normal manual pressure every time. My CTS204P Military is otherwise a perfect example of Spydrco quality. Amazing smoothness, perfect centering, beautiful grind lines everywhere...but that pivot...

- Paramilitary 2. Same issue as the Military, only worse. This DLC Para 2 takes about 20 cycles to fall apart at the pivot. To make matters worse, after opening and closing it two or three times, due to the pivot loosening the tension on the detent ball is so minimal I can gently shake the closed Para 2 and pop the blade open. This is the knife that made me swear off all detent based locks for EDC knives, used to be a favorite. I put loc-tite on the pivot and stop pin screws, then tightened them as much as I could with unpowered hand tools, and I can still make the knife open just by shaking it. Gave up on it and relegated it to desk duty. Don't want to ship it off for repair in case they decide it isn't safe to use and destroy it, as it has sentimental value.

- Swick 3. I was very happy to find a Swick 3 on the secondary market for sale, but my Swick is pretty poorly made. It doesn't have a straight cutting edge, it was a slight hawkbill. Reprofiling it has been a nightmare...I'm eating away from the tip area and the middle doesn't even have an established bevel yet. I really like this knife but I never carry it because every time I go to work on setting a new bevel I get annoyed at how uneven it grinds.


My Japanese Spydercos have been essentially flawless, except for my SE Pacific Salt that wants to rub on the handle when I open the blade no matter what I do to the pivot screw. Otherwise I've got tons of H1 folders and fixed blades that have held up great for years, and Police 3's, Enduras, Caly 3's, Caly Jr's etc. All very nice. I'm never hesitant about buying one of their japanese made knives. H1 and VG10 are two very nice steels, so is ZDP189.

I don't mind gritty action if I can clean it, re-lube the knife and it goes away. If I clean my EDC knife once a month and it's still gritty as ****, that bothers me.

Oh well. I still love their designs and the company as a whole. Maybe some day I'll send some in to repair and see what they can do. In the meantime I'm pretty much to the point where if it isn't a fixed blade or lockback, I won't buy it. That Para 2 opening in my pocket twice really put me off detent based locks, not much keeping them closed...

To be fair, the Yojimbo 2 I bought last winter was 100% impeccable. Utterly flawless in every way. I know Golden is capable of that, they've proved it to me many times over.

Hope I just got unlucky, I have a few purchases planned for the rest of the year but I'll return them if need be.

[anagarika]

@ OP,

My 5 Enduras, 2 Atlantic Salts, and 3 Stretches are not perfect but I worked them out. Notable issues only one Stretch with burr on the lockbar that rubs the liner.
A new knife is always a bit gritty but oiling & using smooth them out, sharp spydiehole is normal, IMO.
Our experience might be similar but the conclusion we took out of it is different, so it's an individual thing I guess. Not better or worse, just different .

If the Caly 3.5 (VG10 I assume) locks up solid and grind is reasonably even, with the tang roughness is the only problem, I'm willing to take it off your hand. We can discuss the price & shipping through PM ...

[bh49]

Mastiff,
I am sorry for your experience. This Caly3.5 look terrible. I would be upset getting something like this as well.
My experience is quite different. The only real complain was about Superhawk, which came with missing chunk of material on spine. Only blind couldn't see. Shocking considering rumors about Japanese perfectionism. My guess that they are humans as well :D The knife was replaced by dealer with perfect sample.
The rest of my experience is fine. Certainly more than dozen of Calys, which went through my hands ( currently I own only eleven) and all of the were fine. About dozen of various Persians, about 20 Kopas, couple spyderhawks, one tasman, memory, workers, lums, temperance2, Rock, adventuras, lava, few delicas and enduras, jess horns, ATRs, copilots and few others. No complains from me. But all of us have different internal standards. I was selling dragonfly, which I thought a good knife and got a **** from buyer on BF for bladeplay. He was really disappointed. O well may be I missed it. I got it back and didn't find any. Sold it on ebay. That buyer was happy. Go figure.
I hope that you will have better luck, if you change your mind.
Roman

[Donut]

That sucks for you. I think Japan offers a lot of quality for a low price. There are a lot of really nice models that come out of Japan.

I've never found the finish to be perfect quality, but it definitely fits with the prices.

[twinboysdad]

Stories like this are why the Caly 3.5 got DQed. Not because they weren't selling. I know I am just a simpleton in this mind set but screw the factory if they can't build it and build it right. I would have had all the tooling shipped to Golden CO Earth and started production immediately. We are talking arguably one of the top 5 designs ever in Spyderco being shelved because a Japanese factory quit caring enough. A Golden made C3.5 was a dream for me since it would get all the sprints the Native does. I admit to having a High D type personality and wanting what I want my way.

[Evil D]

I always get a kick out of the thumb hole sharpness issue. I actually sharpen all my thumb holes. I want them crisp so I get good traction.

[mb1]

This mastiff loves the Japan made Spydercos.

Other Mastiff

Thanks for that. I was a little surprised to see "you" venting on this. I've read enough of your posts that it seemed a little out of character. Lol . Hate it when my doppelgänger speaks for me.

Maybe we can continue a constructive conversation in this ever so slightly, a smidge less, abrasively titled post.

[Sharp Guy]

I always get a kick out of the thumb hole sharpness issue. I actually sharpen all my thumb holes. I want them crisp so I get good traction.

Me too!