1st ever Spyderco beef

[jackburton9807]

Let me preface this by saying this beef applies to any manufacturer that uses torx screws in their products. For those wiser than I; do torx have some sort of unseen advantage over other screw types that do not seem to strip as easy?

I was taking apart my E4 for about the 20th time to mess around with some more mods and I stripped one of the screws. Man, I had this thing just about where I wanted it. I am wearing a seriously bitter hat right now. It would not be such a huge deal save for the fact that I was taking it apart to clean out all the ploishing compound that I had worked into the pivot. I had used blue loctite last time, but only a barely visible amount. Not a big deal since I can get another one for about $50. But this brings me all the way down.

I am a sad, sad man.

Jeff

[Jordan]

I have often wondered that very thing myself.

[yablanowitz]

Believe it or not, those screws are there for their convenience, not yours. Be glad Spyderco doesn't use the five lobed security Torx that Leatherman did on the original Wave.

[The Deacon]

FWIW, back when Spyderco used Phillips head screws for their clip, there were even more complaints of heads stripping than now with the Torx. Truth is, any small screw strips easily, more so when secured with tread locking compound, more so yet when an ill fitting driver is used. As for the rest of the screws, they do have the unfortunate tendency to encourage people to put their fingers where they don't belong. However, as Yab noted, they're really not meant to be removed by users.

[JNewell]

+1 to the above. Torx is actually the most strip-resistant head configuration around for small fasteners. Good tools and good tool fit is critical, however. And, while I realize 20x may be an exaggeration, these little screws really aren't meant to be repeatedly torqued down and removed.

[fast.ed]

This may sound silly....I put a little piece of plastic food wrap over the screw before I insert the bit. It seems to make a tighter fit. +, very careful not to overtighten. + I use the blue thread loc , which is the weakest from my local store.

[Pinetreebbs]

Torx head screws are not the problem, too much torque, poor tools and poor technique much more likely the cause. Even screws made from mild steel will work quite well if used carefully. Buy good tools with SMALL handles (less torque). Learn to tighten the screws just enough to keep them installed, if they loosen tighten a little bit more. Consider a micro torque wrench, you will be surprised at how little torque is really necessary to properly tighten a screw.

[redyps04]

Maybe I'm just overlooking something, but what's wrong with Allen screws?...

I've stripped so many Torx screws I've lost count at this point, but I could virtually count on one hand how many Phillips and flat-head screws I've stripped over the span of my entire life. It can be very frustrating. I don't think it's an issue necessarily of the amount of pressure, righ tools, etc. (although many times it can be). Torx screws are extremely tricky. They require a specific high-quality tool, with a specific amount of pressure, and even these don't gaurantee they won't strip.

I guess my question, and I think what Jack is trying to say, is why not just use Allen screws... or at the very least use something which doesn't require a specific technique, a "plastic food wrap" trick, steady hand, careful torque adjustments, or a bit of luck, etc?

[Senate]

Torx srcews were designed specifically to prevent cam-out issues on small heads, which was happening a lot on former phillips head spyderco was using.
6 points of pressure divide the torque used to screw/unscrew better than 4 so i believe bad torx drivers and too much thread locking compound are usually the issue, not the screw itself.
i'm glad spyderco made the switch.

[ChrisR]

Yeah, after a lot of fiddling around with Torx here I came to the conclusion that most of my problems were due to the fact that I was using screwdrivers that were ever so slightly too small - they feel as though they are engaging but the torque is not being spread evenly. Often the way to combat this is to use decent-quality drivers in the first place (not cheapo Chinese stuff) but also to really make sure that the next screwdriver up won't fit snugly - test from the biggest down, just to be sure that you're using the tightest fit I like the idea of the food-wrap ... that should help the fit when the driver is slightly too small.

EDIT: It also helps to apply a good, strong push on the screw as you apply the torque ... it feels contra-intuitive but you have to stop the driver lifting itself out so a hefty push is necessary - until you have got the screw to move a little and broken the LocTite

[The Deacon]

Yeah, after a lot of fiddling around with Torx here I came to the conclusion that most of my problems were due to the fact that I was using screwdrivers that were ever so slightly too small - they feel as though they are engaging but the torque is not being spread evenly. Often the way to combat this is to use decent-quality drivers in the first place (not cheapo Chinese stuff) but also to really make sure that the next screwdriver up won't fit snugly - test from the biggest down, just to be sure that you're using the tightest fit I like the idea of the food-wrap ... that should help the fit when the driver is slightly too small.

EDIT: It also helps to apply a good, strong push on the screw as you apply the torque ... it feels contra-intuitive but you have to stop the driver lifting itself out so a hefty push is necessary - until you have got the screw to move a little and broken the LocTite

Exactly. And the other trick is to find the driver with the smallest handle for its bit size, or use the bit without the handle if possible, when tightening screws. Much harder to strip the head or the threads if you have only limited leverage.

[JNewell]

Maybe I'm just overlooking something, but what's wrong with Allen screws?...

They're actually much easier to strip/round-out the recess for the driver than a Torx. Part of that is the design, and part of that is very high chances of poor tool fit resulting from people using metric hex wrenches in SAE fasteners and vice versa.

[JNewell]

This may sound silly....I put a little piece of plastic food wrap over the screw before I insert the bit. It seems to make a tighter fit. +, very careful not to overtighten. + I use the blue thread loc , which is the weakest from my local store.

Not silly, interesting and creative. :spyder:

[Creepo]

Gee I wonder why they started offering this kit:
http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=290
:D
But on a more serious note, give Spyderco a call and they will send you new screws since you don't exactly need the entire kit, might cost a couple bucks but it's way less than buying a new knife.

[2cha]

I was taking apart my E4 for about the 20th time to mess around with some more mods and I stripped one of the screws.



Jeff

Rethread? Would cost you less than buying a new one and maybe less--depending on whether or not you have access to taps-- than buying the parts kit from SFO.

[JNewell]

Rethread? Would cost you less than buying a new one and maybe less--depending on whether or not you have access to taps-- than buying the parts kit from SFO.

I think he means he stripped the recess in the screwhead, rather than the threads...I could be wrong, my comprehension ain't what it used to be... :D

[Javascript]

From http://www.wihatools.com/200seri/285recommend_Torq.htm Just an example of some torque values. Not very much for the smaller screws.

Maximum Torque is similar to driving 120mph: It's possible but mechanical failure will occur sooner
Tip Size Style
T5 TORX .5 Nm 4.4 in.lbs
T6 TORX .6 Nm 5.31 in.lbs
T7 TORX .9 Nm 7.9 in.lbs
T8 TORX 1.3 Nm 11.4 in.lbs
T9 TORX 2.5 Nm 22 in.lbs
T10 TORX 3.8 Nm 33.6 in.lbs
T15 TORX 5.5 Nm 48.7 in.lbs
T20 TORX 8.0 Nm 70.4 in.lbs

[jackburton9807]

Yeah, that's right, stripped the screw head, stripped it proper.

Thanks for all the points, lads. Not sure what my issue was this time but the thing is proper screwed (not sure if the pun was intended) and it's not coming out. I could just leave it in and get on with my life save for the fact that the action is filled with junk and needs to be cleaned out. On the upside, I buggered the lock on another E4 learning a lesson about what not to do with polishing compound and the lock. Thankfully the now permanent screw is not holding the pivot pin or lock bar. I was able to switch the non-buggered handle with the non-buggered blade/lock bar and am now back in business. I'm not sure what my problem is, but I seem to have a strog aversion to warranties and cannot seem to leave well enough alone. Every time I think I've learned my lesson I seem to switch schools.

My Torx drivers are Rigid, I've had them for years and maybe I'm due for a new set.

Thanks again,
Jeff

BTW; I love it here. More thanks forthcoming.

[2cha]

[quote="jackburton9807"]Yeah, that's right, stripped the screw head, stripped it proper.

Thanks for all the points, lads. Not sure what my issue was this time but the thing is proper screwed (not sure if the pun was intended) and it's not coming out. [quote]

Use a dremel and turn the screw into a slotted screw. I don't know if easy outs come that small, but if they do, that'll work. Or, completely drill out the screw and rethread for a larger screw.

You could also try just cleaning out the action with a solvent or spray of some sort--blast it with carb cleaner a couple times and then relube.

[Javascript]

Yeah, that's right, stripped the screw head, stripped it proper.

Thankfully the now permanent screw is not holding the pivot pin or lock bar. I was able to switch the non-buggered handle with the non-buggered blade/lock bar and am now back in business.
My Torx drivers are Rigid, I've had them for years and maybe I'm due for a new set.

Thanks again,
Jeff

Try something like this: http://www.westcoastmall.net/titan-1601 ... -5115.html . There are many different sources, though I didn't see one at WIHA.