Any chance for Ti handled balisong?

[Creepo]

Greetings fellow flippers and spydienuts alike.
As you may know the most praised Benchmade 42 Bali-Song has been discontinued and with the current prices on the secondary market, it is nearly unobtainable. The 42 was dubbed as one of the best high-quality production balisongs on the market. So what made it so good? Note: I'm looking at it from a flippers point of view.

Handle was a bit over 5" alongside 4" blade with a weight of around 4oz.
Are there any production balisongs in the market that are close to these specs? :confused:

Well the closest one in weight would be the Bradley Mayhem, but it is quite a bit shorter overall. Personally I don't know how well it flips and is the shortness really a factor. BUT then theres the price, which will a bit over 200$, even the 42 was well below the 200$ mark. :eek:

Then there's the long awaited mid-priced balisong: the Kimura II.
Very close in size, yet it is significantly heavier, some like it, some don't.

And finally the knife that Benchamde replaced the 42 with: the 51.
Almost identical in size, yet significantly lighter which is a turn off for some flippers. With the added weight of SS liners instead of Ti, it might actually be a very worthy competitor. :p

So with the discontinuation of the Smallfly, the Szabofly being the only balisong left in the lineup, this could be a good change for Spyderco to step in and introduce a Ti handled balisong, perhaps worthy of stepping into the big shoes left behind by the 42. :cool:

So how about it, a re-introduction of the Spyderfly with Ti handles and an affordable american steel (to make it more appealing to flippers), maybe the Carpenter BD-1 that they'll start using in the UKPK?
Or perhaps a totally new model? :D

[wongKI]

A lower-priced Spyderco bali would be very nice.

Personally, I would prefer they make a dedicated flipper, as they cover the SD and EDC roles quite well with regular folders.

I would like to see G10 or even FRN handles with full SS liners. I think it'd be cheaper than titanium, though I'm not sure. The Carpenter BD-1 I agree on-the knife is going to be used more for flipping than cutting.

I would really like the pivot bushing, or if possible IKBS, to be used.

[The Deacon]

Problem for Spyderco is that their balisongs are subject to government rules that nobody else has to play by. Restricting sales of something that is more of a toy than a tool to LEOs and military personnel does make it hard for them. Plus, even if the playing field were miraculously made level tomorrow, the Spyderfly was never really accepted by the bali community, so sales volume might still be a problem.

[Creepo]

I would like to see G10 or even FRN handles with full SS liners. I think it'd be cheaper than titanium, though I'm not sure. The Carpenter BD-1 I agree on-the knife is going to be used more for flipping than cutting.

Well not really FRN as it is so light but I'd be totally fine with G10 and full SS liners without excess skeletonizing to get the weight around the 4oz mark.

[BigBrad75]

I think that it would be awesome, but in all reality, I don't see it happening. With as much scrutiny as they get on their balis, and as many Governmental issues as they have encountered in the past, I really wouldn't recommend holding your breath. Not to burst any bubbles. Don't get me wrong, I would love to see this happen. If anybody could possibly fill the shoes left by the 42, it would be Spyderco.

[Simsmac]

Problem for Spyderco is that their balisongs are subject to government rules that nobody else has to play by.

I've never heard this before. Why is Spyderco more restricted than other knife companies?

[Johnny Boy]

If they were able to produce a flipper specific without the giant holes on the bottom people would eat em alive. Hopefully they could set up shop in a different state or do something as there are tons of companies and custom makers selling balis over state lines.

[Creepo]

If they were able to produce a flipper specific without the giant holes on the bottom people would eat em alive. Hopefully they could set up shop in a different state or do something as there are tons of companies and custom makers selling balis over state lines.

It's not that Spyderco in particular is being constricted, they've sold bali's before. The real problem here lies in the market, with balisongs being illegal in so many states the market is rather small and in the end might not prove profitable enough.

[The Deacon]

It's not that Spyderco in particular is being constricted, they've sold bali's before. The real problem here lies in the market, with balisongs being illegal in so many states the market is rather small and in the end might not prove profitable enough.

That is not entirely true. Spyderco is forced to treat their balisongs as gravity knives by the Federal court in their district. No other balisong maker has to do that. It means Spyderco must demand that dealers only sell to LEOs and active duty military personnel, the same as with automatics. While some dealers do choose to ignore that, it still reduces the potential audience considerably.

You might want to read this post by Kristi and at least the first post in this thread of KaliGMan's. In fact, reading that entire thread when you have the time may give you a better perspective on this.

None of us like this. None of us think it's "right" or "fair" or serves any useful purpose. Even the LEOs who visit here think that laws restricting the ownership of automatics, balis, and gravity knives are foolish. But, regardless of that, Spyderco is forced to live with those restrictions and it does reduce the incentive for them to produce balisongs.

I've never heard this before. Why is Spyderco more restricted than other knife companies?

Follow those links, they will explain it.

[Creepo]

That is not entirely true. Spyderco is forced to treat their balisongs as gravity knives by the Federal court in their district. No other balisong maker has to do that. It means Spyderco must demand that dealers only sell to LEOs and active duty military personnel, the same as with automatics. While some dealers do choose to ignore that, it still reduces the potential audience considerably.

You might want to read this post by Kristi and at least the first post in this thread of KaliGMan's. In fact, reading that entire thread when you have the time may give you a better perspective on this.

None of us like this. None of us think it's "right" or "fair" or serves any useful purpose. Even the LEOs who visit here think that laws restricting the ownership of automatics, balis, and gravity knives are foolish. But, regardless of that, Spyderco is forced to live with those restrictions and it does reduce the incentive for them to produce balisongs.

Follow those links, they will explain it.

I actually read the KGM post, after I had already posted that one.
I just wonder, would it make things any better if Spyderco packed their bags and left to another knife friendly state? Just curious from a legal point of view.

[The Deacon]

I actually read the KGM post, after I had already posted that one.
I just wonder, would it make things any better if Spyderco packed their bags and left to another knife friendly state? Just curious from a legal point of view.

Lets see. They'd need to buy or lease a existing facility or build new one. They'd lose at least 75% of their skilled workforce, probably even more and have to train almost an entire new crew, so production of all other US made models would suffer for some time. They'd need to find a buyer for their existing facility in a down market. Sal, and at least some of the others making the move would have to sell houses, also in a down market, and buy new ones. Not to mention that there would be no guarantee the "new" state wouldn't decide to outlaw the manufacture of autos and balis next year.

All for what? To be able to produce an item which is essentially a toy and which has, at best, limited appeal. I'm not a bali person but, given the comments here, the only universally acclaimed bali seems to be the BM-42. So, they'd either have to make an exact clone of that, a an attractive price, make a bali their way and put up with the same complaints about the "giant holes in the bottoms of the handles", or make something else only to risk having some fault found with it.

[Creepo]

Lets see. They'd need to buy or lease a existing facility or build new one. They'd lose at least 75% of their skilled workforce, probably even more and have to train almost an entire new crew, so production of all other US made models would suffer for some time. They'd need to find a buyer for their existing facility in a down market. Sal, and at least some of the others making the move would have to sell houses, also in a down market, and buy new ones. Not to mention that there would be no guarantee the "new" state wouldn't decide to outlaw the manufacture of autos and balis next year.

All for what? To be able to produce an item which is essentially a toy and which has, at best, limited appeal. I'm not a bali person but, given the comments here, the only universally acclaimed bali seems to be the BM-42. So, they'd either have to make an exact clone of that, a an attractive price, make a bali their way and put up with the same complaints about the "giant holes in the bottoms of the handles", or make something else only to risk having some fault found with it.

Well I guess I should have made my question a bit clearer.
Yes, I know it wouldn't be a good move at all! I'm well aware that it wouldn't be any good financially nor was I implying they should move in the first place.
I was just asking out of curiosity, from a legal (not financial) point of view.

[butch]

Lets see. They'd need to buy or lease a existing facility or build new one. They'd lose at least 75% of their skilled workforce, probably even more and have to train almost an entire new crew, so production of all other US made models would suffer for some time. They'd need to find a buyer for their existing facility in a down market. Sal, and at least some of the others making the move would have to sell houses, also in a down market, and buy new ones. Not to mention that there would be no guarantee the "new" state wouldn't decide to outlaw the manufacture of autos and balis next year.

All for what? To be able to produce an item which is essentially a toy and which has, at best, limited appeal. I'm not a bali person but, given the comments here, the only universally acclaimed bali seems to be the BM-42. So, they'd either have to make an exact clone of that, a an attractive price, make a bali their way and put up with the same complaints about the "giant holes in the bottoms of the handles", or make something else only to risk having some fault found with it.

it woudl be cheaper to set up a small shop/store in a bali friendly state
but as we know Spyderco has never been one to find half way shady workarounds (and rightfuly so )
i would liek a small fly but **** it would be just to look at as i am not a flipper and have no need for a ballie