Keeping ZDP factory sharp

[Onionman]

I just bought a new Stretch FRN with the ZDP blade. Man is this knife sharp!! The only problem I see is keeping it that way. If I remember correctly, the sharpmaker video that I watched long ago said that spyderco sharpens their knives at the factory at a 30 degree angle, and that you should sharpen the knife at the 40 degree angle on the sharpmaker for longer edge retention between sharpenings. If this is correct, would it make sense to touch up my Stretch regularly using the 30 degree angles on the sharpmaker? Since ZDP is supposed to have much better edge retention that other steels, keeping the blade at a sharper angle should hold up longer, right? If this will not work, any other suggestions to keep this knife as factory sharp as possible?

[224477]

Rule nr. 1 - dont allow it to get too dull.

If you keep rule nr. 1, then you are good to go with a leather band or fine/ultra fine ceramics.

[chuck_roxas45]

I do sharpen my factory edge ZDP Endura at 30 degrees. I think ZDP performs better at 30 degrees. I also hear some people lower their bevel angles even more with ZDP blades.

[Murdoc]

If you can touch it up on the 30 deg depends on the original angle of your knife. Some of the ZDP Spydies I own are below 30° incl, some seem to be between 30°and 40°, and some even above this.

For the least hassle, follow the suggestion above and KEEP it sharp, maybe on a leather belt loaded with metal polish paste.

Alternatively, you can get yourself another sharpening system like a Lansky system, the Edge Pro or (if you are SERIOUSLY wanting to evolve sharpening skills) some good stones in different grits
and
reprofile the edge to 25° incl., so you can maintain the edge touching it up on the SM with the 30° setting.

Dennis

[HistoricalMan]

I'm too lazy and unskilled to sharpen my own knives. As such, I usually send them to Golden when their edges need some love and attention.

I commend you on your inquisitiveness!

[The Mastiff]

If you don't use the knife too hard you can lower the angle quite a bit, and thin the edge out. You don't really have to do that though unless you are really driven to try and get the most extreme edge you can get on the knife.

Welcome to the world of the "darksider" :)

35 degrees is fine if you have good technique. I use DMT's myself, freehand but there are more people probably using the sharpmaker and getting excellent results than doing what I do.

In any case, ZDP likes a soft touch. No ham handing and gorilla gripping this steel. It responds well to good technique, and a light touch with an accurate angle.

Note* that reprofiling is a different story, and not what I'm talking about. That has it's different rules and preferences.

Recently resharpening a Burgundy Caly jr I was surprised how fast and easy I was able to set a new edge on it. No fuss, or muss, just a few light strokes and it was beyone razor sharp. If I was pressing hard I would not have gotten the accuracy I needed to sharpen it, and ended up having to reprofile the edge, losing perfectly good steel and still only getting back to the original position of having to set the bevel and then strop ( with leather & diamonds, something I also recommend using good technique on)

The edges possible with this steel are astounding. The wear resistance is superb. Treat it like the high performance sport model it is and you will be rewarded with a knife steel combination we could only dream about 15 years ago.

Just remember, Diamonds and a light touch. Accuracy is essential when you're talking about putting edges on that are sharper than store bought razors. Go through the stages of grits, putting on a fresh, complete edge with each one taking it to the limit for that grit.

It sounds worse than it is. Just remember 1) accuracy, and 2) light touch.

Joe

[chuck_roxas45]

Just for kicks, I reprofiled my ZDP endura to about 22 degrees inclusive with a DMT aligner and finished with the EEF stone. Quite a noticeable increase in performance. I don't use this knife too hard, just mostly for everyday food tasks and some package and letter opening duties. It's just nice to know I can get it that sharp.

[The Mastiff]

Yeah Chuck, 22 degrees inclusive is no problem with ZDP, provided you are not needing heavy or abusive work from the blade. The increase in sharpness can be amazing if the angles are matched up correctly, and the burr removed properly.

I've found the burr isn't really difficult to get rid of with ZDP. At these thin edges it's difficult to spot sometimes, and I feel for it on my fingernail.

A good diamond on leather strop can take care of the final burr and make the edge well beyond store bought razor type sharp.

The chrome carbides in ZDP have a different feel to say, Vanadium, or tungsten carbides. The result is a smoother edge at extremely high grits than, say, S90V. The "killer V" steels resist abrasion more especially during hard use but IMO, they will never take the extreme "darksider" edges possible with plain carbon steels, and some ( very , very few high carbide steels) such as ZDP.

Yep, I'm still amazed by ZDP even after using it for several years now, and owning over a dozen knives made from it.

Like anything else the more you work with it, and the harder and more extreme you push it, the more ZDP will reveal of itself to you.

Regards, Joe

[chuck_roxas45]

I agree completely with you guys, I do think ZDP is really great. Since I can't strop to save my life, it's actually quite nice that I got it that sharp just with the EEF. I used a jeweler's loupe to check for the burr. And I also find that what you say about the difference between S30V and ZDP and how fine of an edge they take. My ZDP endura makes me break out in a wide grin everytime I cut some hairs by running them on the edge. My wife has questioned my sanity since I now spend more time cutting and splitting individual hairs. :D

[jackknifeh]

Hello,
The smaller the angle on the edge will of course cut better. When the steel is harder like the ZDP (I have a Michael Walker) the angle can be lowered to cut better without a lot of risk to damaging or chipping the edge. I sharpen this knife to 18 degrees (per side to equal 36 degrees total angle on the edge). When I hear people say they sharpen to 30 degrees some people I think mean 30 degrees per side. I might be wrong. I've used the DMT aligner system for about 3 years and was very happy with it. It does have some problems however. One is the clamp doesn't hold all blades at exactly 90 degrees so the sides of the edge may be different. Still can get a razor edge though. If you are sharpening san mai III blades or the ZDP/420 that Spyderco has you NEED to keep the edge in the center of the blade on the ZDP steel. This may be difficult with the aligner depending on the shape of the blade and the angle the clamp holds it. Also I had to use a Dremel to cut notches in the spine of one of my knives because the angle was so steep that the clamp would spit the blade out and not hold it. I didn't mind doing that to that knife but that I needed to do it is totally unacceptable. I now use an Edge Pro sharpener and am getting excellent results. If anyone is looking for their first good sharpening system my suggestion is don't try to save money. The Edge Pro for about $200 will get you a great system with several stones. I've spent around $100 on the aligner and accessories for it. Now, however I've spent $300 on both and don't use the aligner anymore. The aligner is a really good system just not the best available.

By the way Chuck or anyone: I've heard about hair splitting sharp. Exactly how is this test performed? I can shave my arm and even my face but would like to know more about the phrase "hair splitting sharp". Is it just a phrase or is there an actual test?

[Billy]

Hair splitting means exactly that - having a blade sharp enough to make a fuzz stick out of an individual hair. For me, that means being able to catch an individual hair on my arm or hand with the blade, and rather than push the blade all the way through to cut it in half (sometimes referred to as "tree topping"), I whittle a little curl in the hair so it looks like a split end. :cool:

[chuck_roxas45]

Hair splitting means exactly that - having a blade sharp enough to make a fuzz stick out of an individual hair. For me, that means being able to catch an individual hair on my arm or hand with the blade, and rather than push the blade all the way through to cut it in half (sometimes referred to as "tree topping"), I whittle a little curl in the hair so it looks like a split end. :cool:

Yes, for me the definition of Billy is what I understand to be hairsplitting sharp. Also , I find that the sharper the edge the more you can control how thick the curl you shave off. I find that a sharper edge can make it easier to literally split a hair in two almost equal halves while a less sharp one will need more dexterity to split a hair. I don't know if that's the experience of everybody. Also hairs are not equal there are bigger diameter hairs and finer ones. I find finer ones more difficult to split also. They get cut all the way through easier.

Sorry for the thread hijack. We need to get back on topic.

[ChapmanPreferred]

Sharpmaker should handle the job nicely.

[JD Spydo]

Frankly I don't have any serious problems sharpening any of my Spyders ( or any other knife as far as that goes) and to keep them so called "Factory Sharp" really isn't that much of a big deal.

Sharpening is like any other skill>> it takes practice. I've told people many times before using the Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker to view the video/DVD at least 3 times before attempting.

What I have really noticed about ZDP-189 is that it really takes a good polished edge off of the Spyderco Ultra-Fine benchstone or even on a good grade of Novaculite stone. It has an edge that really bites into whatever you're cutting. It's one of my top 5 blade steels to use.

Also ZDP-189 really benefits greatly from stropping.

[Onionman]

Thanks for all of your comments. I think I'll give my Stretch ZDP its first touch up tonight with the sharpmaker at the 30 degree angle setting (15 degrees on each side).

[Scottie3000]

There was an ongoing review of a ZDP Stretch 2 by Spoonrobot and he said he took his angle down to 15 degrees inclusive (7.5 degrees per side) and it was working out very well for him. Try that with VG-10!

[ChapmanPreferred]

Onionman,

I would suggest coating the edge with a sharpie before you begin so you know where on the bevel you are hitting with the 30 degree setting of the Sharpmaker. If you are hitting right on the edge, then do as few strokes as possible so you do not waste the lovely ZDP 189 blade steel. :)

Again, welcome to the posting side of the forum!

[Scottie3000]

If you are hitting on the shoulder where the edge bevel meets the blade, you will be there a long time sharpening the 30 degree until it reaches the edge. Your choices are either use the 40 degree setting or find something more aggressive to cut your 30 degree bevel like diamond rods or wet/dry sandpaper wrapped around a ceramic rod. Good luck and let us know how it turns out!

[Onionman]

ChapmanPreferred

Used the sharpie before using the sharpmaker as suggested. Sharpmaker at 30 degrees seemed to touch the edge perfectly. Did 10 strokes on each side with the fine rods. Sharp as new!

Thanks

[jackknifeh]

I got a Michael Walker knife with a ZDP blade a couple of weeks ago. I've used it a lot, even when not necessary just to see about edge retention. Whenever the edge would loose the razor sharpness I'd touch it up and have it like brand new again with very little effort or time. This has been suggested in this discussion and I would have to agree; NEVER let the blade get real dull.

I decided to lower the edge angle a couple of degrees. I've spent at least 2.5 hours on it and I'm still not there yet. Getting very close though. I've done this many times on other knives with AUS-8, VG-10 blades and others and none of them took anywhere near the time the ZDP is taking. This makes me happy because if the steel holds up this well against stones designed to cut steel away how much better should the steel hold up against everyday use. One thing I plan to do is once I get the edge where I want it I'll only be touching it up when needed to keep it sharp and never change the edge angle again.

Sincerely, a happy customer,
Jack