65 years of Manjurian operation

[nozh2002]

Japan conquer big part of China and Mongolia - it was resource base for Japan military to conduct the War in Pacific. Chinese, Mongolian and Korean population was treated as animals - to practice head chopping with katanas, to use korean women as a sex slaves etc... Same as German but much less "civilized".

Front line was 4600 km 200-800km deep including deep forest, deserts etc. Japan has 1.3 million troops, there 6260 units of artillery, 1155 tanks, 1900 airplanes, 25 navy ships. They expect long defense to supply their island and War in the Pacific.

Russia according to obligation to help US against Japan started Manjurian operation 9 Aug 1945. 18-19 august Japanese defense was broken and Russian troops roll over desert to reach industrial centers of Manjuria.

18 Aug 1945 Russia conduct massive airborn operation in Kharbin, 19 Aug 1945 same in Ghirine, Chanchung, Mukend. 25th Army with Russian Marines from the sea land and take over Korean ports - Uki, Rasin, Seisin, Wonsan. So Japanese army can not return to Japan and continue War there.

19 Aug Japanese started surrendering everywhere.

Economical base for Japan was taken over and 2nd September Japan capitulate. Before Russians had a chance to invade Japan Island itself (very fortunately, in deed, otherwise we may have same South and North Japan - same as Korea...).

So in 10 days 1.3 million ultimate samurai warriors was turned into free labor for commies. I guess Russian vets were different enemy then Chinese, Korean and Mongolian armed with swords, bows and arrows...

Thanks, Vassili.

[Sequimite]

Japan had no warships left by the time Russia attacked and very few planes. Lack of proper raw materials caused some Japanese planes to fall apart from ordinary flight stresses. The loss of pilots was even worse. Before August 1945 new pilot's only training flight was flying their planes to their forward base. The second training flight was a combat sortie. Few pilots were trained in navigation and entire flights were lost because if those pilots were killed no one knew how to get back to base.

It may be that the cold war colored our view, but historians in the West believe that Stalin was just grabbing some land after Japan was already effectively defeated. Seems like a reasonable judgment to me.

[nozh2002]

Japan had no warships left by the time Russia attacked and very few planes. Lack of proper raw materials caused some Japanese planes to fall apart from ordinary flight stresses. The loss of pilots was even worse. Before August 1945 new pilot's only training flight was flying their planes to their forward base. The second training flight was a combat sortie. Few pilots were trained in navigation and entire flights were lost because if those pilots were killed no one knew how to get back to base.

It may be that the cold war colored our view, but historians in the West believe that Stalin was just grabbing some land after Japan was already effectively defeated. Seems like a reasonable judgment to me.

Yes I know that cold war make many historian to dismiss anything good Russia did or revert Russian actions in wrong way.

For example I was very surprised to learn that at Civil War it was Russian Navy who protect North from attacks from the sea - Russian warships were deployed in New York and San Francisco. Which make Brits and Spain and South not to even think about attack from the sea. At that period as well Russian sailors help SF to fight fire and several of them died.

Manjorian operation was key in Japan defeat. According to their army document they were planning long defense and did not think that they were effectevely defeated - did not happen this way. As well as help was asked during Yalta conference between allies and Russia keep this promice moving millions troops over thousands of kilometers from Germany to Far East on the 4600 km front line.

As well as this propaganda crap - well, I can point out quite a bit of soviet historian who assure you with proves and everything that it was American Capitalists grabbing land, join War at the very end only when it was clear that Russian already destroyed nazy - just to take over Europe... (I know it is not quite true, I know about unfortunate landing in Norvegian shore, fighting in Southern Europe etc... West did their best. And of course a lot of raw materials supplied Russia war industry etc).

Those kind of people singing what they were payed for. Unfortunately they was able to teach this to few generation here and there. But after all Russians destroy 1.3 million Kuantun Army making huge contribution to Japan defeat. Unfortunately they was able to teach this to few generation here and there.

Thanks, Vassili.

[Doc Pyres]

Vassili, this is a family forum. The first part of this thread is in poor taste for this forum and frankly, sounds racist. Please delete it.

[slice22358]

Just thought I'd say that I read the title as "65 years of Marijuana operation :p

[Doc Pyres]

Even the 'Off-Topic' forum at Spyderco forums is not for posting politics. If you want to engage in political discussions, do it elsewhere. This thread also violates numerous rules stated in the Spyderco Forum Rules/Guidelines (Revised 25-May-2010), as seen here.

Thanks, Doc.

[slice22358]

Even the 'Off-Topic' forum at Spyderco forums is not for posting politics. If you want to engage in political discussions, do it elsewhere. This thread also violates numerous rules stated in the Spyderco Forum Rules/Guidelines (Revised 25-May-2010), as seen here.

Thanks, Doc.

Doc, the best way to keep these type of threads from surviving is to report them, and never post in them; it only keeps them alive, and on the front page.

[Doc Pyres]

Doc, the best way to keep these type of threads from surviving is to report them, and never post in them; it only keeps them alive, and on the front page.

I appreciate your suggestion, slice, and you are correct. That's why I reported it 4 or 5 days ago. I think we were all hoping the OP would have the courtesy to remove it in the meantime. That obviously hasn't happened.

[Sequimite]

Even the 'Off-Topic' forum at Spyderco forums is not for posting politics. If you want to engage in political discussions, do it elsewhere. This thread also violates numerous rules stated in the Spyderco Forum Rules/Guidelines (Revised 25-May-2010), as seen here.

Thanks, Doc.

Perhaps you could be more specific. I read the rules and don't see how a discussion of the history of the the second world war is "political".

It's an historic fact that the Japanese used Korean woman as sex slaves and that Japanese officers, to cite but one example, sometimes killed Chinese to "blood" their swords for good luck.

I think the OP makes dubious assertions, but don't see any rules violations.

[ChrisR]

Yeah, Vassili's slant on Russian operations in Manchuria are predictably pro-Russian ... but I also take his point that our view of WW2 are based on a fair bit of western cold-war propaganda too. That said, I can't believe that the Japanese would have held out very long in Manchuria, while the Allies were knocking on the door of mainland Japan. They were planning defense throughout the areas of occupation but that doesn't mean that they would have been very successful - 2x nukes dropped by the US soon rolled up whatever resistance there had been. Stalin had already shown his agenda in Europe by seizing the Baltic states, and most of Eastern Europe, then denying them the democracy he had promised. His war in the east came very late and might have added material support to Pacific operations but I am sure they were also motivated by wanting to land-grab.

It's interesting to debate these things because, since the iron-curtain has come down, historians have been able to access archives that have given a different view of a lot that happened in Russia during WW2 - quite a lot of it not very complimentary to Stalin. I was fascinated to chat to my Russian girlfriend about her view of WW2 ... she hasn't got much interest in wars but from her school days she was hardly aware that Britain had any input in WW2 and was almost completely ignorant of operations in western Europe ... a byproduct of growing up in Brezhnev's days and being fed Soviet propaganda. :rolleyes:

Whatever we do I think it's our duty never to forget what our forefathers gave in WW2 for our freedoms, all around the world and from many nations.

[Sequimite]

While I disagree with Vasilli strongly about Manchuria, there is no doubt that each Allied country exaggerates it's own role in WWII.

Hitler's war in the east was doomed from the start because he cared more about his own fantasies of racial purity then he did about military strategy. Allying with the Ukrainians and other large pockets of opposition to Stalin would have enabled the Germans to add millions of soldiers and stand a good chance of conquering Russia. As it was, however, the Germans had no answer to the sheer numbers and industrial capacity of the Russians. Obviously the US was frantically shipping supplies to support the Russian effort and the Russians were always short of ammunition and food, but they had good weapons, including the best battle tank of WWII, the T-34, and fought tenaciously.

What Russian-centric history conveniently overlooks is that Stalin precipitated the war by becoming Germany's partner, signing a non-aggression pact and carving up Poland. Without the Allies fighting the Germans on many fronts the Russians would have still been fighting on Russian territory when the US created atomic weapons in 1945. In this alternate history, the Allies(other than Russia) would have ended the war and controlled everything outside of the original Russian borders.