Ha, I like this, I for one am wayyy OCD and I wouldn’t change one thing on this knife!
I **think** I like the clip on my original C60 a little better, but I’m over that! This one was definitely meant to be used!
Ha, I like this, I for one am wayyy OCD and I wouldn’t change one thing on this knife!
Hmmm, no I mean comparing the blade profile of the Ayoob 1.0 Serrated vs the 3.0, the new model has a different blade shape - the 3.0 is 'taller/broader' towards the tip at the point where the blade transitions from PE to SE:Evil D wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:57 ammark greenman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:59 pm
Excellent review / analysis.
I hadn't even realized the newer model is less pointy / had a different profile tip to the original until you mentioned it.
I wonder what inspired that change?
Probably has something to do with the hollow grinding process and wheel. None of the ones I've handled have perfectly symmetrical blade grinds (including my original). Maybe this is just how my examples are? I wonder how the plain edges differ.
I think for both SD and fine Utility tasks, you want a tip thats as thin and razor sharp as possible while maintaining stiffness (ie wont flex or bend on impact like a cheap steak knife). That was a major goal of the Fairbairn Skyes dagger, among others, a needle sharp thin tip.ZrowsN1s wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 12:42 pmI'm glad they thickened the tip. I obviously LOVE Spyderco's line of self defense knives, and carry one daily. (IMO)Thin tips are a flaw with many of them. Even my favorite, the P'kal. I know everything is a trade off, and Spyderco leans heavy into cutting being the number one priority. On a utility knife I completely agree. On a defense knife I would prioritize a strong tip/piercing ability first, cutting second. The Ayoob model seems to follow my priorities.
Which isn't to say the P'kal, Matriarch, Yojimbo, etc. don't/can't function, I mean obviously I don't think that as I edc a P'kal, but they could be better.
I'm stoked off the SE as I have a solid supply of the PE Ayoobs from the previous G1O sprint, and have really wanted a SE Ayoob with a G10 handle (my Alumite Ayoob 1.0 is just too pretty and slick to carry.)twinboysdad wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 11:37 amStill learning the trade is what I took from what Sal had shared. The maker got way more right than wrong, but I went with PE as the SE was going to bug me.Evil D wrote: ↑Mon Sep 05, 2022 1:57 ammark greenman wrote: ↑Sun Sep 04, 2022 10:59 pm
Excellent review / analysis.
I hadn't even realized the newer model is less pointy / had a different profile tip to the original until you mentioned it.
I wonder what inspired that change?
Probably has something to do with the hollow grinding process and wheel. None of the ones I've handled have perfectly symmetrical blade grinds (including my original). Maybe this is just how my examples are? I wonder how the plain edges differ.
I own a Fairbairn Sykes Dagger. The tip is bent Any SD knife is likely to encounter bone, I like robust tips that can handle that without deforming or breaking.mark greenman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:00 pmI think for both SD and fine Utility tasks, you want a tip thats as thin and razor sharp as possible while maintaining stiffness (ie wont flex or bend on impact like a cheap steak knife). That was a major goal of the Fairbairn Skyes dagger, among others, a needle sharp thin tip.
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Spydercos thin tips are a lot more robust then one would imagine; heres the pretty thin tipped police 4 being stabbed into a concrete block without the tip snapping or really deforming.ZrowsN1s wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:31 pmI own a Fairbairn Sykes Dagger. The tip is bent Any SD knife is likely to encounter bone, I like robust tips that can handle that without deforming or breaking.mark greenman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:00 pmI think for both SD and fine Utility tasks, you want a tip thats as thin and razor sharp as possible while maintaining stiffness (ie wont flex or bend on impact like a cheap steak knife). That was a major goal of the Fairbairn Skyes dagger, among others, a needle sharp thin tip.
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I've heard people rationalize weak tips by saying well if you break a knife tip off on someone's bone they won't be a threat anymore. I think thats wishful thinking. You HOPE they're not a threat anymore, you hope they don't have accomplices. Criminals often attack in groups of two or more. The kind of disparity of force situation a knife or gun would be ideal for.
Can a knife with a broken tip still function? Yes. A dull screwdriver can function. But does it function at 100%? Definitely not. Why do they sell knives with sharp edges and pointy tips? Because they work better than dull edges blunt tips. Given the choice, I would choose a blade that won't fail under extreme use.
In my testing a more robust tip doesn't have to hinder penetration if the blade is designed correctly. Compare the geometry of the P'kal to the Emerson Elvia. The P'kal has a slight advantage on slicing, but for a tip centric design on both, I prefer the geometry of the Elvia.
That was the video that made me want to try the Police 4. As a utility knife.mark greenman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 8:03 pmSpydercos thin tips are a lot more robust then one would imagine; heres the pretty thin tipped police 4 being stabbed into a concrete block without the tip snapping or really deforming.ZrowsN1s wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:31 pmI own a Fairbairn Sykes Dagger. The tip is bent Any SD knife is likely to encounter bone, I like robust tips that can handle that without deforming or breaking.mark greenman wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:00 pmI think for both SD and fine Utility tasks, you want a tip thats as thin and razor sharp as possible while maintaining stiffness (ie wont flex or bend on impact like a cheap steak knife). That was a major goal of the Fairbairn Skyes dagger, among others, a needle sharp thin tip.
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I've heard people rationalize weak tips by saying well if you break a knife tip off on someone's bone they won't be a threat anymore. I think thats wishful thinking. You HOPE they're not a threat anymore, you hope they don't have accomplices. Criminals often attack in groups of two or more. The kind of disparity of force situation a knife or gun would be ideal for.
Can a knife with a broken tip still function? Yes. A dull screwdriver can function. But does it function at 100%? Definitely not. Why do they sell knives with sharp edges and pointy tips? Because they work better than dull edges blunt tips. Given the choice, I would choose a blade that won't fail under extreme use.
In my testing a more robust tip doesn't have to hinder penetration if the blade is designed correctly. Compare the geometry of the P'kal to the Emerson Elvia. The P'kal has a slight advantage on slicing, but for a tip centric design on both, I prefer the geometry of the Elvia.
That said, the thick tipped Ayoob is comfortingly durable.
JSNV wrote: ↑Tue Sep 06, 2022 2:24 pmVery happy with my SE version! I’m LE in Canada and will have many use cases for it including EDC. The g10 and amazing ergos really suit this beautiful Cruwear steal and Ayoob design. Thank you Spyderco, JP Spydo and David for all the analysis and feedback. I want to get a PE as soon as I can find one.