Spyderco Ceramic vs. Japanese Whetstone

[rooster81]

Oh, and to take it up a notch, leather strops with lapping paste is also recommended.

[Bill1170]

I will be sharpening a few cheap stainless steels, some 1095 and other soft high carbon, but I specifically bought it for the kitchen knife I also ordered. It is a Yahiko made from Ginsan stainless from Chef Knives To Go.

I use mesh-style silicon carbide drywall sanding sheets stuck to a granite plate with water, for flattening my water stones. The holes in the mesh let the grit keep cutting by holding the swarf down in the hollows between the gritty grid lines.

I haven't heard of that one before. Can you get those sheets from typical home repair stores?

Yes, look by the drywall-specific tools at a Home Depot. Those are typically staged near the drywall sheets and containers of joint compound, not with the other tools and not with the regular sandpaper.

[sal]

Spyderco stones would be both ceramic and CBN.

sal

[Hopsbreath]

For the simple purpose of acquiring a nice sharp edge on an EDC with no significant edge damage, I really like my medium Spyderco bench stone. You’re right, it’s far less fussy than a water stone. I have diamond plates for when more steel removal is needed but for simple maintenance, ceramic serves my needs fine.

[Scandi Grind]

Spyderco stones would be both ceramic and CBN.

sal

What does CBN stand for?

[harpo1]

Spyderco stones would be both ceramic and CBN.

sal

What does CBN stand for?

Cubic Boron Nitride. Which is just about as hard as diamonds.

[Scandi Grind]

I got my whetstone in the mail and have been trying it out on a few things. I tried flattening it on some sandpaper and quickly realized why I don't hear that suggested often. It is slow and wears out sandpaper quick. Should have expected that. I'll have to get something else to speed that along.

Also, I am now wondering, how often should I flatten the stone? Is it something I should do lightly every time, or only when I can actually see that it losing flatness?

To be honest I am kind of nervous using this kind of stone for the first time and really want to make sure I'm using it right.

[sal]

Hi Scandi Grind,

CBN "stones" and ceramic "stones" don't need to be flattened.

sal

[RustyIron]

I've been wondering about flattening, I've heard a lot of bad things about various flattening stones, so I wasn't particularly confident getting one.

My first flattening stone was a Norton, if I recall correctly. They're a big name, so I figured I couldn't go wrong. It was ok, but took forever to flatten a dished stone.

At the urging of people smarter than me, I decided to go to a glass plate with silicon carbide and aluminum oxide powder. I went with EdgePro because it was one-stop shopping. You can surely get a better deal if you shop around and know what you're looking for.

Anyway, the glass plate and abrasive powder worked MUCH MUCH MUCH better for me. It cuts quickly and leaves a better finish on the stones. I don't need to flatten stones often, maybe twice a year at most. Coincidentally, yesterday morning I flattened the six stones I used the most. It couldn't have taken more than an hour, and the stones are now like new.

[DrHE]

I use a series of diamond (320/600/1200) before going to light strokes on the Spyderco medium/fine/ultra fine prior to stropping. Honestly for just maintenance (when more is needed than just a good strop) the Spydercos are amazing. I have them in triangle, bench stones, double stuffs (even a 2 with CBN) and the golden stone. The Golden stone itself for a fast touchup cannot be beat for sheer ease.

All abrasive levels have a job they can do for you. Also so steels like a more toothy edge for certain jobs so a variety allows you to control the edge geometry and finish for maximum performance of that knife.

[Scandi Grind]

Hi Scandi Grind,

CBN "stones" and ceramic "stones" don't need to be flattened.

sal

Sorry, I've probably got everybody confused, I ended up getting a Cerax Whetstone, that's what I was asking about flattening, I will probably get some sort of Spyderco Ceramic soon as well. I'm thinking about just buying some Sharpmaker rods just by themselves to put in my own jig and freehand with.

[Wandering_About]

I got my whetstone in the mail and have been trying it out on a few things. I tried flattening it on some sandpaper and quickly realized why I don't hear that suggested often. It is slow and wears out sandpaper quick. Should have expected that. I'll have to get something else to speed that along.

Also, I am now wondering, how often should I flatten the stone? Is it something I should do lightly every time, or only when I can actually see that it losing flatness?

To be honest I am kind of nervous using this kind of stone for the first time and really want to make sure I'm using it right.

I'm going to recommend either the Naniwa flattening stone, or the Double Time from Sharpening Supplies. The Naniwa is much less expensive and has worked well for me for general stone maintenance. The Double Time is nice if a stone needs a lot of work to get it back to flat, and it has two grits so you have a little control over the surface finish of your stone.

If you want a very flat edge bevel, you'll want to flatten the stone more often, as when a stone dishes it's harder to make your bevel crisp. If you don't mind some convexing, you can get away with letting the stone dish a little more. Easy to check for dishing with a good straight edged ruler. I have no hard instruction for when to flatten, but it's best to not let it dish too much or flattening will be more difficult, especially if your flattener is smaller than your stone.

[weeping minora]

Hi Scandi Grind,

CBN "stones" and ceramic "stones" don't need to be flattened.

sal

Sorry, I've probably got everybody confused, I ended up getting a Cerax Whetstone, that's what I was asking about flattening, I will probably get some sort of Spyderco Ceramic soon as well. I'm thinking about just buying some Sharpmaker rods just by themselves to put in my own jig and freehand with.

Regarding flattening procedures for your whetstone, there are many different schools of thought, all being based out of preference. In this instance, it is no different than people choosing to let their knife dull to the point of needing a complete sharpening progression to bring back intended performance/sharpness, versus touching it up regularly to keep that performance/sharpness once even a minute decrease is observed. The time and effort (read: preference) needed to flatten is the deciding factor and you will gain that preference through the experience of using and becoming familiar with your stone (watching how it dishes) and sharpening techniques (how much dish can you detect/handle whilst maintaining your intended result, consistently). As has been discussed, there are many abrasives and techniques to achieve intended flatness, for all abrasive medias.

For my personal practices, I've decided it best to give a quick lap nearly every time I pull a whetstone set-up out, since I typically sharpen multiple knives when I do so. I find I never really have to worry, or spend an unnecessary amount of effort and time (to me), in making assured that the stones will be flat enough to produce consistent results for my muscle memory/sharpening technique. Another benefit to this method is not allowing bad habits to cross-contaminate your sharpening technique when you do skip to stones that do not dish, like diamond plates, or Spyderco ceramics. Make sure to utilize the whole surface of your stone when sharpening and the dishing will be less pronounced overall, whilst allowing much more use out of your stone over its lifespan.

All this being said, I strictly use whetstones for sharpening kitchen-based cutlery, as I favor Japanese and German style knives and steels that do not require more extreme abrasives to obtain high performance/sharpness. I suppose my preference to lap my stones preceeding each sharpening session partly comes from enjoying using steels that dull quicker and require more frequent maintenance in sharpening. I adapted that mindset of consistent maintainence for my stones the same.

I will also recommend the Double Time flattening stone from Sharpening Supplies for the flattening of your whetstone. I hope this helps, or answers what you were asking.

[Scandi Grind]

Great advice everyone, thanks for the breakdown.

[JD Spydo]

The only one of Spyderco's ceramic stones I've ever had that I finally had to replace has been the medium/gray stones. And I've had to replace 2 of them on my 204 Sharpmaker kits and one of my Spyderco 302 benchstones developing a "dishing" effect over time. Can't really gripe much though because if you figure how many hours and years I used those stones it's still a great bargain in the long haul.

Neither the white/fine or the Ultra-Fine stones I've never had to do anything except clean them regularly with Bar Keeper's Friend and sometimes I use industrial grade AJAX with oxygen bleach. I"ve also found that making a solution from that Oxygen Bleach grade of AJAX makes a good solution to soak your stones overnight with as well.

If anyone ever finds a cleaning product that cleans as good or better than Bar Keeper's Friend please let us know.