SE H1 and The Sharpmaker UF Stones

[ZrowsN1s]

I should start by saying in general I prefer high edge retention over ease of sharpening....

Now that I've said that here's a post about the awesome ease of sharpening with H1 :D
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I've been playing with the sharpmaker a lot this last week. I reprofiled and sharpened about 7 or 8 different knives, kitchen knives, some Kershaws, some spydies. "High carbon stainless", vg-10, lc200n, s90v, cpm 154, and H1 to name a few.

H1 was so much easier to work with than any of the other steels, not even close. This became most evident with the Ultra Fine Stones. It was almost effortless (compared to the others) to put a highly refined, mirror polished edge on PE and SE H1 using the UF stones. The ease of sharpening H1 is really remarkable to me.

PE H1 is good, but the real magic comes from SE H1 and the ultra fine stones.

I listened to many forum members sing the praises of Spyder edges, to which I'd always say... I like it when it's fresh out of the box, but I hate the way SE tears things when it gets dull. I like smooth clean cuts, and I can never get SE as sharp as I want without a dremel and some diamond paste...

Well now I can have my cake and eat it too. With the sharpmaker, ultra fine stones, and SE H1. I get an easy to maintain serrated edge that cuts clean and smooth but won't slide off of materials that typically cause highly refined edges to slip a little, like day old bagels, hard plastics, and some synthetic ropes :D With the serrations it also keeps a 'working edge' for a good long while after the initial sharpness has faded. In the toothy edge vs. refined edge debate, I think it's the best of both worlds. Ultra Fine polished SE H1 may be my new favorite :spyder:

[Evil D]

Try power stropping with a Dremel...

[ZrowsN1s]

Try power stropping with a Dremel...

:D Thank you again for telling me about power stropping. It really helped me in my struggles to get SE sharp. But I confess to not needing it any more (for H1 anyways) since getting the ultrafine stones. A few quick passes on the UF stones and 2 or 3 passes on the corner of my KP strop block and I'm good to go. No more saftey glasses and power tools required :D

[Evil D]

Try power stropping with a Dremel...

:D Thank you again for telling me about power stropping. It really helped me in my struggles to get SE sharp. But I confess to not needing it any more (for H1 anyways) since getting the ultrafine stones. A few quick passes on the UF stones and 2 or 3 passes on the corner of my KP strop block and I'm good to go. No more saftey glasses and power tools required :D

I still strop. I can get very very sharp edges off the UF's but stropping seems to still take them to the next level. I can't quite get them push cutting phone book paper as easily without stropping.

[ZrowsN1s]

...stropping seems to still take them to the next level...

You know I'm probably the biggest fan of strops on the forum, you won't get an argument from me there. I've been getting great results using a few passes with the edge of my strop block instead of using the dremel, but if I went through my normal dremel progression from 5micron to .25micron I know I'd get better results. This new way I've been doing it is so much faster though, and I can split hairs with the edge I get, so even though I know I could take it to an even higher level of refinement ( "sticky edge" territory ), for edc maintenance I think for now I'm converted to just using the UF's and a few passes on the strop block.

Lulz "I don't need to take it to that level of refinement", I'm starting to sound like the coarse edge fans :D This place is getting to me.

[Evil D]

...stropping seems to still take them to the next level...

You know I'm probably the biggest fan of strops on the forum, you won't get an argument from me there. I've been getting great results using a few passes with the edge of my strop block instead of using the dremel, but if I went through my normal dremel progression from 5micron to .25micron I know I'd get better results. This new way I've been doing it is so much faster though, and I can split hairs with the edge I get, so even though I know I could take it to an even higher level of refinement ( "sticky edge" territory ), for edc maintenance I think for now I'm converted to the just using the UF's and a few passes on the strop block.

Lulz "I don't need to take it to that level of refinement", I'm starting to sound like the coarse edge fans :D This place is getting to me.

I think eventually my technique will get better on the Sharpmaker and I may not need the Dremel as much. It just recently occurred to me that I can make edge leading passes moving from heel to tip and then from tip to heel and get the entire curve of each serration. That has improved my edges quite a bit. I've also found that the snagging issue as well as how easily I can get an edge sharp is improved just by establishing a visible micro bevel on the serrations side. Once the teeth are a bit rounded they seem to cut more and snag less.

[vivi]

Try to get your SE H1 hair whittling sharp right off the UF stones. That's my goal when I touch up my SE Pacific Salt. That type of edge is an absolute monster. It will push cut through stuff like loose plastic wrap and poly rope so easily, and then as soon as you try to slice something it's cut before you know it :)

Highly polished SE is the best of both worlds IMO. Doesn't suffer from the slippage PE UF edges can, and the serrations means it never loses its bite.

[JD Spydo]

Try power stropping with a Dremel...

Yeah what Evil D said and I'll go a couple more to add to that one. First and foremost you've just got to get a set of the old/discontinued Spyderco 701 Profiles. I've been diligently trying to get Sal & Co to bring those sharpening tools back to the main line up and Sal more or less assured me that it was going to take some time but it is on his list of things to get done >> and the sooner the better.

But you can probably find a set on the secondary market if you look hard enough. It's the only sharpening tool I've ever used that comes close to getting Spyderedges to the original factory condition than anything else I've tried. I've been doing some SE sharpening with leather boot laces impregnated with sharpening compound and I've had some desirable results. You can also use some diamond files on the spike parts of the serrated edges. I find that really enhances the penetration ability of the Spyderedge.

But I do also find it interesting that you've attained those results on H-1 blade steel with Ultra-Fine Spyderco stones. However usually when I have stuff to do with a plain edge I most usually will go with my main EDC or one of my VG-10 work Spyders. But in any case I do find it very interesting that you got those results as you did and I'm going to do a little experimenting myself.

[SpyderEdgeForever]

JD My brother and friend, you do not realize how helpful this thread is!

Please pardon this admittance of somewhat ignorance, but in the future I will need the tutorial help of you and others on here about this very thing: I hope to get a Sharp Maker. I have never used one before. I want to sharpen serrated-edge H1 steel, my Atlantic and Pacific Salts.

Now I have the answer: The Ultra Fine Stones.

[ZrowsN1s]

.... It just recently occurred to me that I can make edge leading passes moving from heel to tip and then from tip to heel and get the entire curve of each serration....

I've been doing this as well.

I should also mention for JD and SEF's benefit that with both my DFlys the 40 degree slots were hitting the shoulder of the bevel. So I had to spend 20 minutes or so on the brown stones reprofiling the first time I sharpened them. I then did about 20-30 passes each on the fine and ultrafine to mirror polish the bevel. After that about 5 or 6 passes on the ultrafine and 3 passes on the edge of the strop block once a week is all I do to maintain the edge. The angles might be different for the Pac Salt or others. Always use that sharpie! :D

[Evil D]

I'm pretty lucky, I haven't had any SE blades that didn't hit the edge at 40.

[JD Spydo]

On a couple of Spyderedged "reprofiling" jobs I've had in the past year I've found one of my obscure, little known tools to be a GOD-Send. It's really interesting to me that the 3M Company has some really nice sharpening tools but yet you don't hardly hear anything about them on any of the knife forums. Not only do I think their diamond benchstones are at the top of the heap but they also make diamond files that come in a wide variety of shapes, sizes and grit selections.

Now the WoodWorking community seems to be knowledgeable of them and oddly enough it was at a WoodWorking show is where I discovered 3M's diamond sharpening tools a few years back. Not knocking DMT or any of the other good diamond tools out there but the 3M sharpening tools are really good. And I've found the 3M's diamond files do help a lot for reprofiling Spyderedges.

And yes you do need to reprofile Spyderedges occasionally too.

[vivi]

My Pacific Salts all sharpen great at 15 degrees for the SE versions. PE come thicker.

JD, what are the advantages of the 701 profile stones over the standard sharpmaker stones?

[senorsquare]

Try power stropping with a Dremel...

Have you done a youtube video of this power stropping technique? I'd love to see a video tutorial if you have the time or inclination to make one.

[Evil D]

Try power stropping with a Dremel...

Have you done a youtube video of this power stropping technique? I'd love to see a video tutorial if you have the time or inclination to make one.

Sure do. This first one talks more about sharpening in general but the second one shows more how I do it.

https://youtu.be/QKe3JBaGd0M
https://youtu.be/O3oK8nKkX0A

[JD Spydo]

My Pacific Salts all sharpen great at 15 degrees for the SE versions. PE come thicker.

JD, what are the advantages of the 701 profile stones over the standard sharpmaker stones?

There are several advantages in using the 701 Profile stones that Spyderco sold up till 2012-13. First of all there were two radii edges on the files and between one or the other you could fit one side in almost perfectly into any scallop portion of the Spyderedge and file it until you get it almost back to original factory condition. Second the corners of the stones both have slightly different angles and they will fit virtually any spike part of the serrated edge to get them even better than when they came from the factory.

Now EVIL D even took it higher by using a power-strop mechanism he devised on one of his Dremel tools. He's also mentioned using diamond dust ( micron and sub-micron) along with other types of compounds to attain a razor edge in the scallop sections.

If I could get Spyderco to also make an Ultra-Fine 701 Profile that would be all I would need to get Spyderedges to an optimal performance. And for field use I haven't found anything better. Now I have used the Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker for sharpening some types of serration patterns but I find that they tend to deform the pattern over time. Now the Sharpmaker will get them sharp and I won't argue that for a second but I like the way the 701 Profiles just seem to bring back Spyderedges to their original splendor.

Now I have used the Ultra-Fine stones from the 204 Sharpmaker for deburring and doing some fine touch ups for Spyderedges and sometimes you can develop quite a burr depending on the blade steel and how dull they were to begin with.

[ZrowsN1s]

....
Sure do. This first one talks more about sharpening in general but the second one shows more how I do it.....

Thanks for posting those D :D

[JD Spydo]

....
Sure do. This first one talks more about sharpening in general but the second one shows more how I do it.....

Thanks for posting those D :D

ditto here too>> that was very enlightening EVIL D. As the old Chinese proverb says "A Picture Is Worth 1000 Words" >> a video is probably worth 10,000 words.

One thing an old German machinist told me years ago was that when doing any kind of filing you should push in toward the edge and not away from it. He was an extremely smart old man and I learned a lot when working with him. It sure is true when sharpening the cutters on saw chain ( for chain saws). When it gets right down to it "deburring" might actually be the primary key to all sharpening>> being that many burrs are microscopic.

[ZrowsN1s]

Sharpened my new Tasman last night. Found myself again wishing they sold an alternative base for the sharpmaker with a setting somewhere in between 40 -30 degree inclusive (like a 35 degree inclusive and a 25 degree inclusive).
The 30 degree slots hit too high, and the 40 degree slots hit too low. It was frustrating. I tried putting stones under it to change the angle, but it didn't help much and it's awkward and a little inconsistent.
I tried to see if I could reprofile it with the 30 degree slots, but after 30 minutes I realized I'd be sharpening all night before I hit the apex... So eventually I said *-it and just used the 40 slots. Which gave me what I guess is a large 'micro bevel'. It's plenty sharp, but I really like even bevels. Maybe I'm being too much of a perfectionist, but I was disappointed in the results, (I had much better results with the DFly which was perfect for the 40 slots with only a minor reprofile job). On the Tasman I now have a small polished bevel at the apex, a small polished bevel at the shoulder, and in between a large factory bevel.

[Evil D]

Sharpened my new Tasman last night. Found myself again wishing they sold an alternative base for the sharpmaker with a setting somewhere in between 40 -30 degree inclusive (like a 35 degree inclusive and a 25 degree inclusive).
The 30 degree slots hit too high, and the 40 degree slots hit too low. It was frustrating. I tried putting stones under it to change the angle, but it didn't help much and it's awkward and a little inconsistent.
I tried to see if I could reprofile it with the 30 degree slots, but after 30 minutes I realized I'd be sharpening all night before I hit the apex... So eventually I said *-it and just used the 40 slots. Which gave me what I guess is a large 'micro bevel'. It's plenty sharp, but I really like even bevels. Maybe I'm being too much of a perfectionist, but I was disappointed in the results, (I had much better results with the DFly which was perfect for the 40 slots with only a minor reprofile job). On the Tasman I now have a small polished bevel at the apex, a small polished bevel at the shoulder, and in between a large factory bevel.

I bet it would take a fully adjustable base to hit the full bevel width. Even then you'd be in for a **** of a time sharpening with a bevel that wide, it would take forever. Micro bevels are your friend. These edges are rather thin so I don't mind a higher degree bevel, it just adds edge stability.