The Spyder Hole-invention or just a hole?

[ace]

I recently read one of the threads by someone upset over SOG's use of a hole in the blade as a method of opening.

I don't know...I don't think we should get our undies in a bunch over this. How can the drilling of a hole be considered an idea that can't be copied. After all---what company first invented the nail nick? What company first invented the thumb stud? I don't think you can take ownership of a drilled hole. Let the overall quality of the knife be what makes it a Spyderco.

A drilled hole is just simply one of those types of inventions that you cannot hang on to by yourself as a company. Just as the nail nick, thumbstud, liner lock, flat ground blade etc. are usable by all.

I am a big, big Spyderco fan and have 6 of them, but I like other brands too. Designers also work with multiple companies--guys such as Bob Lum, who made a super nice knife for benchmade in the dejavoo. It has a clear spydie hole, but its a benchmade. I think that is a kick *** knife and I'm glad I bought it. I like the 'voo better than the Lum Chinese folder for example, by a long shot.

Spyderco's invovative designs and supreme quality are what makes them probably the best--the spydie hole will continue to get copied--but that's OK in my opinion.

[Ted]

Hi Ace - the round hole (at the time called a depression) was patented but it expired. Currently, the round hole is officially and legally trademarked.

Benchmade and Spyderco official statement is that there is an agreement between the two parties.

The SOG hole is, if I understand correctly, oval shaped and has a cut-out. So one could argue that it is not 100% identical to a trademark. But, trademarks are used to identify and distinquish a specific product. Will Joe Average see the difference between a bunch of Spyderco's and this SOG, or that Benchmade from a few yards away. Wouldn't most think - hey, they all look like a ...

Opinions on whether it is ethically (or even legally) right to use a shape/color/phrase similair to a registered trademark will differ between people.

[The Deacon]

Hi Ace - the hole (actually a depression) was patented but it expired. Currently, the hole is officially and legally trademarked.

True Ted, but we need to make it clear that the trademarks only cover holes of a specific shape. In Spyderco's case, the Spyderco round hole opener and the Byrd comma opener. Now that the patent has expired, holes of other shapes are now fair game, unless someone else has trademarked said shape.

I think the controversy over the SOG is due primarily to its resemblance to the Endura. If it were not for that, the oddly shaped and partially cut hole would not have raised any eyebrows.

I'm glad you like your Lum, but personally, I will never allow any Benchmade product in my home.

[Peruna]

Ace, without getting overly technical, the opening hole is considered intellectual property. Anyone's use of such property without the express consent of Spyderco may be in violation of Federal law, specifically Titles 17 and 35 of the US Code. That is why it is an important issue.

[Ted]

True Ted, but we need to make it clear that the trademarks only cover holes of a specific shape.

true, rephrased it to round hole ...

[noddy]

I love that hole :)

Of course it is useful and practical as a means of opening a knife, but I love it as a signature too. The way it sets there, almost impertinently, in the blade of the bushcrafter is just admirable.

There was some discussion of a stockman a while ago, and it could live there really effectively, perhaps as a stylized nail nick

[Sequimite]

I agree with Paul. The cut elliptical hole is not an issue. The resemblance to an Endura is.

Once the patent has expired there is no dilemma in having a hole in the blade.

Having a circular hole however, aside from the possible copyright issue, seems on its face to be an attempt to confuse brand identity. It's not that hard to vary the hole.

[npueppke]

The hole is trademarked. That is why they use it on all of their knives, including fixed blades.

It was patented, and back in the 80s or 70s I'm sure it was a big deal because one handed knives were completely unknown, aside from switch blades/gravity knives. Nowadays with all of the different opening techniques a one handed knife is not that big of a deal anymore, so it might seem silly to us now that it was once patented.

[Blerv]

Another simple invention: the lever. "It's just a stupid stick."

Really while intending to keep it clean and shiny I have to say one thing about patents and the laws surrounding them:

"There are leaders and there are followers."

By copying you will never get ahead of a company that innovates. It's the reason that people are having problems catching up with Apple...because they are creating new products while people are trying to mimic things they R&D'ed 5-10 years ago.

As for brand identity it's a complete different topic. It's the reason the fixed blades have holes in them (not because it's a great place to strap a lanyard). With other brands using the hole it's very confusing and frustrating for some of the customers...ultimately it weakens the copying company by detracting from it's own history and branding.

[Joshua J.]

Technically it isn't a hole at all, but rather a very odd shape in the blade spine.

Anyway, the rest of this thread seems to be very old news.
Peanut-Butter Jelly Time?

[J Smith]

It is if it has a function and you patten or copy right it.

[Blerv]

............Anyway, the rest of this thread seems to be very old news.
Peanut-Butter Jelly Time?

Agreed. Thanks for the reminder.

[Donut]

It's just a hole, but it is a hole that functions better than a thumb stud, adds no weight to the knife, adds no material cost to the knife, and adds an interesting look to the final product.

It is very well thought out and it is somewhat surprising that no one said to themself "What is the best thing I can use to grab ahold of the blade with my thumb?"

I bet you if the other manufacturers thought of it first, it would be a much bigger deal to them.

[Jay_Ev]

The hole being round is absolutely perfect. It swivels or pivots under the thumb better than any other shape ever could. I have seen blades with oval, elliptical, oblong, square, triangle, trapezoid, pentagon, star, etc. and none of them hold a candle to the circle.

[ace]

Thanks for the feedback--I guess I'm a little new to the history of Spyderco. At any rate, its still the overall quality and innovation that will carry 'em through...

[dialex]

Ace, the subject of the hole has been discussed extensively here at the Forum.
However, in this particular case, it's not the hole, but the knife itself which is surprisingly similar with the Endura.

[jenko]

It's not only benchmade and sog that have a similar "hole", a few more are emerging....

Anyone heard of ANSO Knives??

http://www.testlab-outbreak.com/models.htm

A sample here:



mods remove if desired, thanks.

[The Deacon]

It's not only benchmade and sog that have a similar "hole", a few more are emerging....

Anyone heard of ANSO Knives??

http://www.testlab-outbreak.com/models.htm

A sample here:



mods remove if desired, thanks.

The difference is that Jens Anso, and a number of other CUSTOM makers including are licensed by Spyderco to use the round hole opener.

[Toad310]

A proteced trademake, and licensing on a hole...what a country!

[loremipsum]

I am pushing this back up. Recently I have some thoughts about prototyping some knife design thru CNC, is a license required for such to do so?

Thanks.