Spyderco H1 line expansion!

[thelock]

Hello everyone,

Been a while. As usual I come with requests lol sorry Sal :D . I have been out of the knife world for a while, didn't follow the new stuff for about a year and a half or so, but I have been carrying, using and adding knives to my collection. I am very happy with the Lava, I pushed hard for that knife and I want to thank Spyderco for making it, great job. Other than the lava, I added a dodo carbon fiber (dodo and lava should be regular production IMO), old native s30v and Spyderco Pacific Salt. All these knives I have carried and used and was very happy with them, but today I lost my pacific salt and that is why I am here. I carried the Pacific Salt for an entire summer last year and for about a month this year, pretty much went swimming with it every day. Issues that I have encountered were mostly with the pocket clip, I had to keep bending it often as I needed the knife to stay secure, I clipped it on the waistband of my swimming shorts. I lost it once while diving last year but I was able to find it again, this time not so lucky. I am happy to say that I had no rust issues whatsoever and I pushed the limits with it, not cleaning it at all with normal water after swimming. Another thing I didn't like about the knife was the lack of liners, I think it would make it much stronger as I did get some play. So after loosing it today I went online to go buy another H1 knife, I was disappointed to see that the line does not have any new folders, except for the autonomy which I like a lot except for that sheepsfoot blade. Why does spyderco not expand this line? They dominate this market and I seriously think that we need to see more knives in H1, specially since the Japanese finally started to ship out their H1 steel. Why is there not an autonomy with a different blade shape? It would be an exceptional military knife and fishermens knife. I really hope that we will see some more high quality knives in h1, something with g10 and titanium liners, auto or normal, I believe there is a big hole in this aspect that spyderco needs to fill.

Stay sharp,
Lou

[SpyderEdgeForever]

Hi, Lou, great post. 1 The Japanese are now starting to ship out actual sheets and bars etc of H1 steel for manufacturers to form into things? Really? COOL!

2 I would love to see expanded lines of H1 Spyderco knives. More fixed blades and folders. Right now the JumpMaster 2 is coming out with a pointed tip and serrated edge, and sal has said on here they plan to release one called the Fish Hunter with a more spearpoint type of blade or something. Right Sal?

H1 is amazing stuff.

[Leadsled]

A Manix 2 LW in translucent yellow.......

[The Deacon]

The "op ed" on that would be that liners just add more in terms of complexity, weight, and cost than strength.

As for expanding the H-1 line, based on the level of lust I've seen on this forum for steels like Super Blue, HAP-40, 52100, and M-4, I'm inclined to think rust resistance is a fairly low priority for many. Edge holding, on the other hand, seems to be, as do blades with full flat grinds, and serrated edge sales, aside from a few models, have been on the decline for years. Given that H-1 can only be hollow ground and is at the lower end of the edge holding spectrum except when serrated, I'm not seeing a huge untapped market for H-1 versions of existing Spydercos.

[elena86]

I am a very happy camper with my Pac Salt serrated as it is and I don't feel the need for liners.As Deacon mentioned, they just complicate things and increase cost rather than offering rigidity and strenght. The new Salts, starting with 2010 if I remember corectly, have an adjustable pivot and screwed toghether slabs so blade play is not an issue anymore.I advise the OP to just get another Pac Salt and enjoy it. :)

[MacLaren]

Guys/gals, how well does CTS-204P,M390 and CPM-20CV it do? I realize its no H1 or LC200N?
I believe all 3 are at 20 in the Chromium dept.

[PayneTrain]

Guys/gals, how well does CTS-204P,M390 and CPM-20CV it do? I realize its no H1 or LC200N?
I believe all 3 are at 20 in the Chromium dept.

Yessir, as they are all essentially the same steel made by different companies. It is a very corrosion resistant steel! I use my 204P PM2 a lot and neither food nor pocket humidity have managed a speck of visible rust. I haven't neglected it as much as I have S110V, another hugely corrosion resistant steel, but I bet their limits are similar.

Still, like you said, they aren't H1. They can be defeated. I am all for H1 everything, serrated or not. I'm a pretty low maintenance guy, and I like my tools to be as well. If I could afford it, I'd drive a car made of H1! Paging John Delorean...

[MacLaren]

Thanx brother.
Ive come to really appreciate M390 and 204P.
Such solid all around performers in my novice opinion.

[Cujobob]

Guys/gals, how well does CTS-204P,M390 and CPM-20CV it do? I realize its no H1 or LC200N?
I believe all 3 are at 20 in the Chromium dept.

ZDP-189 is also 20 ... Not stainless. It's not about the number, specifically, that determines how stainless a steel is.

Elmax, when properly heat treated, is more stain resistant than the M390 variants, I believe. Still, those would not be ideal for Salt knives.

Certain Sandvik steels, Cronidur 30/LC200N, Nitrobe 77, H1 (serrated, at least), and a few others are better suited for that role. H1, as a plain edge option, really isn't that high performing.

[MacLaren]

So if zdp189 at 20cr isnt a stainless then why is 204p at 20cr a stainless. What holds up zdp189 from not being a stainless or what makes 204p at 20cr a staineless?

[The Deacon]

If I could afford it, I'd drive a car made of H1! Paging John Delorean...

If S&W would make a 642 (or Taurus would make a CIA 85) in H-1, I'd be all over it. :D

[MacLaren]

If I could afford it, I'd drive a car made of H1! Paging John Delorean...

If S&W would make a 642 (or Taurus would make a CIA 85) in H-1, I'd be all over it. :D

Hadn't thought about a wheel gun in H1....that would be something!

[thelock]

I am asking for something that the current line does not have, except for the autonomy which I think has liners. IMO plastic with no liners is just edc friendly, it's not built for heavy duty tasks, otherwise why do the higher end spyderco backlocks have liners? The current line needs a strong knife, g10, regular blade, auto and none, I think we can all agree on that. H1 is an exceptional steel, I have no problem using the serrations. I think the knife that I am asking for would make a great sea and military knife.

[SpyderNut]

I am asking for something that the current line does not have, except for the autonomy which I think has liners. IMO plastic with no liners is just edc friendly, it's not built for heavy duty tasks, otherwise why do the higher end spyderco backlocks have liners? The current line needs a strong knife, g10, regular blade, auto and none, I think we can all agree on that. H1 is an exceptional steel, I have no problem using the serrations. I think the knife that I am asking for would make a great sea and military knife.

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your Pac Salt, thelock. That always hurts.

As for new developments in the Salt line, we've been told that Sal and Eric have been developing two new folders that will feature LC200N and will have Compression Locks. IIRC, there will be a larger and smaller version of the same knife. I believe the blades will be in a Leaf profile. The knife is called the Caribbean. Not word on ETA as of yet, unfortunately.

[Surfingringo]

...IMO plastic with no liners is just edc friendly, it's not built for heavy duty tasks....

There should be a law against using a folder as hard as I've used my Pacific Salt. Seriously, I've beaten that thing like a rented mule. I have never even noticed the lack of liners in actual use. That said, I started a thread on this exact subject a few years ago and Sal and company have created a couple of new G10 Salt knives that should be out in the next year or two. They will use lc200n steel and they WILL have liners. Hopefully the lines will be fully rustproof.

[thelock]

Great news guys, thank you. I don't know much about this lc200n steel, how does it compare to H1?

I am thinking of getting thee Autonomy for now and sending it to a friend to regrind the blade. It will loose the coating but what can you do, I don't like the orange g10 version.

[ThePeacent]

I agree with 'Gringo, I've beaten my Salts to death and lack of liners was never an issue



They're as strong as almost any other folder I have.



I've pried, dug, stabbed, even thrown the Pac Salt once, full force.



No problems.



Both the blades and handles are built for use, and will do everything a knife could be asked to do within reason



And if you still want H1, but tougher and sturdier, you can always upgrade

These are built to last



To work



To perform



And to take all the money from my wallet!



I am an H1, and would love an expansion of the line and offerings.



Now I am waiting for the Jumpmaster 2 and the Fish Hunter.



Those look really nice

[tangent]

I agree with what others have said. I've beaten the **** out of one of my Pac Salts and it is still very much in service...and it is one of the old pinned constructed knives at that. IMHO, Spyderco does not make a better hard core work knife than the Pacific Salt.

[thelock]

My experience with backlocks without liners is that they will get up and down play with hard use. Spyderco makes their g10 backlocks with liners, g10 is stronger than plastic. The pins will eventually wiggle their way to get some blade play. Not to mention that if you squeeze the handles hard enough they flex. Don't get me wrong, these are great utility knives, but in hard use I would not trust my life to one. One more request would be for stronger pocket clips, maybe with some kind of dtent? I don't have time to do a video and show everything I am talking about, maybe in the future. I am excited to see the new knives that you guys talked about, I am a big fan of H1, I just wish we would see it used on a different variety of knives with different locks and scales.

[araneae]

My experience with backlocks without liners is that they will get up and down play with hard use. Spyderco makes their g10 backlocks with liners, g10 is stronger than plastic. The pins will eventually wiggle their way to get some blade play. Not to mention that if you squeeze the handles hard enough they flex. Don't get me wrong, these are great utility knives, but in hard use I would not trust my life to one. One more request would be for stronger pocket clips, maybe with some kind of dtent? I don't have time to do a video and show everything I am talking about, maybe in the future. I am excited to see the new knives that you guys talked about, I am a big fan of H1, I just wish we would see it used on a different variety of knives with different locks and scales.

Liners should have zero effect on vertical play, from what I have learned here, it is an artifact of lock fitting. Some knives have it, others don't; but it results in no loss of strength or lock function that I have heard of. They may help with side to side play, but a Salt with an adjustable pivot will also allow you to remove play when properly adjusted.