Endura dud or fake?
Endura dud or fake?
*NOTE: To confirm, after sending this into Spyderco they have confirmed it is indeed a counterfeit model.
Picked up this Endura 4 FFG from someone second hand but it appears unused, came with box and paper work. Immediately i noticed when i opened it that something wasn't right, the action was VERY gritty and when the blade opened into position you can feel vibration from the spring through the knife.
This led me to look over the knife as suspiciously as i could, as I've never had a Spyderco with so many flaws/inconsistencies and it doesn't appear genuine to me, but I want to know what you guys think.
First of all the blade doesn't seem the same in terms of its finish, all the other VG-10 knives i have ever owned are more polished and take on a slight coppery hue in certain light where as the Endura here is more matt and the grind lines show more.
The blade spine is ground with the curves of a humpbacked whale and not the usual straight spine with dropped tip.
The pocket clip was different too, The Endura's (Center) is more shiny in contrast to the matt finish on the Stretch and Delica either side. Note also that the Spyder is higher up on the clip and that some of the flats are different on the Endura.
The reason its missing a screw is because the first time i took the clip off and screwed it back on the threaded hole for the screw stripped.
The lockback bar is also the worst i've seen, I know that there is some give in these lock backs, (up/down side/side) but even so, none of my lockbacks have ever been this poorly finished.
The gaps along with the seesaw lockback bar make it harder to close the knife because the boye dent is so much lower in the handle.
Lockback bar finish in comparison to Delica and Stretch in the closed position:
Inside the Endura the lockback bar appears to be unfinished unlike my Stretch and all my other FRN lockbacks which have the same polished finish as the blade
Stretch inside, nicely finished and uniform with the rest of the metal parts.
Next is the Contact areas between lockback and blade, as can be seen below. The Endura appears to be unfinished and slightly uneven whereas the Stretch is nicely finished as it should be.
Jimping is also poor on the endura, again not uniform with all the other FRN model's ive owned or seen in the past:
The insert doesn't look consistent with what i've seen in the past, with a large gap where the lanyard hole and pocket clip screws go, I thought that usually there is just one hole drilled out for the lanyard area?
The thickness in the Endura's FRN pattern was different in comparison to my Delica and Stretch too, a bit rudimentary but this kind of shows the thickness difference. (Endura on the Left)
*Also note the large crack inside the spydie hole.
Picked up this Endura 4 FFG from someone second hand but it appears unused, came with box and paper work. Immediately i noticed when i opened it that something wasn't right, the action was VERY gritty and when the blade opened into position you can feel vibration from the spring through the knife.
This led me to look over the knife as suspiciously as i could, as I've never had a Spyderco with so many flaws/inconsistencies and it doesn't appear genuine to me, but I want to know what you guys think.
First of all the blade doesn't seem the same in terms of its finish, all the other VG-10 knives i have ever owned are more polished and take on a slight coppery hue in certain light where as the Endura here is more matt and the grind lines show more.
The blade spine is ground with the curves of a humpbacked whale and not the usual straight spine with dropped tip.
The pocket clip was different too, The Endura's (Center) is more shiny in contrast to the matt finish on the Stretch and Delica either side. Note also that the Spyder is higher up on the clip and that some of the flats are different on the Endura.
The reason its missing a screw is because the first time i took the clip off and screwed it back on the threaded hole for the screw stripped.
The lockback bar is also the worst i've seen, I know that there is some give in these lock backs, (up/down side/side) but even so, none of my lockbacks have ever been this poorly finished.
The gaps along with the seesaw lockback bar make it harder to close the knife because the boye dent is so much lower in the handle.
Lockback bar finish in comparison to Delica and Stretch in the closed position:
Inside the Endura the lockback bar appears to be unfinished unlike my Stretch and all my other FRN lockbacks which have the same polished finish as the blade
Stretch inside, nicely finished and uniform with the rest of the metal parts.
Next is the Contact areas between lockback and blade, as can be seen below. The Endura appears to be unfinished and slightly uneven whereas the Stretch is nicely finished as it should be.
Jimping is also poor on the endura, again not uniform with all the other FRN model's ive owned or seen in the past:
The insert doesn't look consistent with what i've seen in the past, with a large gap where the lanyard hole and pocket clip screws go, I thought that usually there is just one hole drilled out for the lanyard area?
The thickness in the Endura's FRN pattern was different in comparison to my Delica and Stretch too, a bit rudimentary but this kind of shows the thickness difference. (Endura on the Left)
*Also note the large crack inside the spydie hole.
Last edited by Skellz on Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:52 am, edited 7 times in total.
Sprig - Mule M390 - Military Cruwear - GB1 - GB2 - Para 2 S35VN - Delica HAP40 - Domino - PITS - Salt 1 SE
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Blade stamp looks poorly done, (A & P are not cut) suggesting again that it might be a fake to me.
Edge around the ricasso area is not ground the same as on all the other FRN models i've come across.
Next was the Spydie hole, the diameter seemed off when looking at the Endura and Delica side by side. The diameter is supposed to be 13mm, which on the Endura it was only 12mm:
and on my ZDP Delica it was 13mm:
Now i've read about being able to tell the difference between fakes and genuine from the boxes and paperwork and I did happen to notice a few subtle differences in this case.
These are all the boxes i have at the moment but it can be clearly seen that the printing of the black swoop goes a lot further down on the Endura's box.
Looking at the back of the box, (Endura's on the left) The type font is noticeably bolder in reality and in this image, as well as misalignment of the "R" on all the lines of text.
There's a very subtle boldness to the font on the bottom box (Endura's) in fact all the text on the box of the Endura is slightly bolder than a normal Spyderco box.
Another point that's always talked about is the foam inside the boxes, genuine Spyderco boxes have foam that leaves a gap around the edges and doesn't quite fit the box. Whereas the fakes generally fill the entire box floor, much like my Endura's box does at the bottom:
Finally the paperwork, now i know that it can differ quite a bit between models and sprints but even so the Endura's in the center here is definitely different from the rest i own. A Para 2 and Delica Super blue Edge-u-cation papers are sat either side of it for comparison.
The Endura's paperwork(Now on the right) has got 1 spelling mistake that i picked up on and the format of the page is not the same. The bug and side bar come at different heights on the page along with the text/font being a larger size on the Endura's paperwork compared with all the others I have.
There are also larger breaks between the text on the Endura's paperwork.
Edge around the ricasso area is not ground the same as on all the other FRN models i've come across.
Next was the Spydie hole, the diameter seemed off when looking at the Endura and Delica side by side. The diameter is supposed to be 13mm, which on the Endura it was only 12mm:
and on my ZDP Delica it was 13mm:
Now i've read about being able to tell the difference between fakes and genuine from the boxes and paperwork and I did happen to notice a few subtle differences in this case.
These are all the boxes i have at the moment but it can be clearly seen that the printing of the black swoop goes a lot further down on the Endura's box.
Looking at the back of the box, (Endura's on the left) The type font is noticeably bolder in reality and in this image, as well as misalignment of the "R" on all the lines of text.
There's a very subtle boldness to the font on the bottom box (Endura's) in fact all the text on the box of the Endura is slightly bolder than a normal Spyderco box.
Another point that's always talked about is the foam inside the boxes, genuine Spyderco boxes have foam that leaves a gap around the edges and doesn't quite fit the box. Whereas the fakes generally fill the entire box floor, much like my Endura's box does at the bottom:
Finally the paperwork, now i know that it can differ quite a bit between models and sprints but even so the Endura's in the center here is definitely different from the rest i own. A Para 2 and Delica Super blue Edge-u-cation papers are sat either side of it for comparison.
The Endura's paperwork(Now on the right) has got 1 spelling mistake that i picked up on and the format of the page is not the same. The bug and side bar come at different heights on the page along with the text/font being a larger size on the Endura's paperwork compared with all the others I have.
There are also larger breaks between the text on the Endura's paperwork.
Last edited by Skellz on Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:28 am, edited 6 times in total.
Sprig - Mule M390 - Military Cruwear - GB1 - GB2 - Para 2 S35VN - Delica HAP40 - Domino - PITS - Salt 1 SE
- spydieh0le
- Member
- Posts: 357
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2015 9:50 am
Re: Endura dud or fake?
That blade engraving points towards a fake in my mind.
61 Spydies and Counting.
Official Manix Addict :spyder: :
s110v LW,S110v Franken Manix Green G10 Putnam Scales, DLC HG S30v PE,Cruwear(2x), 80mm Lockback,HG S30v Full SE, Tan M4,Foliage Green CTS-XHP,Burgundy CTS-BD30P Franken Sprint ,Moonglow,XHP LW,Maxamelt LW
Hunting the Elusive s90v CF Manix 2 Sprint Run
Official Manix Addict :spyder: :
s110v LW,S110v Franken Manix Green G10 Putnam Scales, DLC HG S30v PE,Cruwear(2x), 80mm Lockback,HG S30v Full SE, Tan M4,Foliage Green CTS-XHP,Burgundy CTS-BD30P Franken Sprint ,Moonglow,XHP LW,Maxamelt LW
Hunting the Elusive s90v CF Manix 2 Sprint Run
Re: Endura dud or fake?
I don't have an Endura, but that looks likely to be a fake to me. They are selling fakes in multiple colors now.
:spyder:
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Faaaaaaaaake!
Sheesh, it's like those scumbag counterfeiters aren't even trying anymore.
Sheesh, it's like those scumbag counterfeiters aren't even trying anymore.
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Ok i've uploaded all my photos and evidence, I agree i thought it was a 95% fake from my conclusion. I'm glad you guys are thinking the same.
Sprig - Mule M390 - Military Cruwear - GB1 - GB2 - Para 2 S35VN - Delica HAP40 - Domino - PITS - Salt 1 SE
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Hi Skellz,
Welcome to our forum.
Interesting observations. Sorry for your confusion. We'd have to study the piece to be able to really tell. Modern Chinese counterfeits are getting better and better. Charlynn will contact you and try to retrieve it for study. either way, we'll replace it with a new one.
sal
Welcome to our forum.
Interesting observations. Sorry for your confusion. We'd have to study the piece to be able to really tell. Modern Chinese counterfeits are getting better and better. Charlynn will contact you and try to retrieve it for study. either way, we'll replace it with a new one.
sal
Re: Endura dud or fake?
sal and spyderco, you guys are awesomesal wrote:Hi Skellz,
Welcome to our forum.
Interesting observations. Sorry for your confusion. We'd have to study the piece to be able to really tell. Modern Chinese counterfeits are getting better and better. Charlynn will contact you and try to retrieve it for study. either way, we'll replace it with a new one.
sal
just wanted to say :)
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Thanks Sal, that's very kind and a testament to the great service your company offers. However I have already contacted the seller who is now issuing me a refund.
I have to admit, I wasn't sure there were counterfeit FRN models floating about before, but after handling this one and doing some investigating it is slightly worrying how close some of these copies are getting.
I have to admit, I wasn't sure there were counterfeit FRN models floating about before, but after handling this one and doing some investigating it is slightly worrying how close some of these copies are getting.
Sprig - Mule M390 - Military Cruwear - GB1 - GB2 - Para 2 S35VN - Delica HAP40 - Domino - PITS - Salt 1 SE
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Hi Flatearth,
Welcome to our forum and thanx much for the kind words.
Hey Skellz,
Please ask the seller to try to get it to us for a look/see. We'll replace it with a new one.
sal
Welcome to our forum and thanx much for the kind words.
Hey Skellz,
Please ask the seller to try to get it to us for a look/see. We'll replace it with a new one.
sal
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Will do Sal, I have mentioned to him that you would be interested to see the knife and suggested he gets in touch when i've sent it back to him.
Sprig - Mule M390 - Military Cruwear - GB1 - GB2 - Para 2 S35VN - Delica HAP40 - Domino - PITS - Salt 1 SE
- spinynorman
- Member
- Posts: 179
- Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 1:44 pm
- Location: Peaks Island, Maine
Re: Endura dud or fake?
In addition to everything else that you've noticed, in one of the photos that shows the thumb hole, you can see pretty clearly that there are cracks in the steel on the inside of the hole. Junk!
- SpeedHoles
- Member
- Posts: 2725
- Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:53 am
- Location: Mitten
Re: Endura dud or fake?
This is insane. How are so many fake products infiltrating the market and spreading so rapidly?
Going back to Caly.
- Stuart Ackerman
- Member
- Posts: 2088
- Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 2:39 pm
- Location: New Zealand
- Contact:
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Those pics are good...shows us what to look for...
- farnorthdan
- Member
- Posts: 4409
- Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:32 pm
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Good eye and great observations, welcome to the forum.
Happy to be part of this great forum and group of down to earth spyderco addicts, Thanks Sal and gang.
My Grails: Lum Tanto folder sprint, Sprint Persian(red), Captain, Manix 2 (M4), SB MT, PM2 M390, CF dodo, Manix2 (CF S90V),Manix2 XL S90V, Zowada CF Balance Rassenti Nivarna, Lil' Nilakka, Tuff, Police 4, Chinook 4, Caly HAP40 52100 Military, S110V Military, Any/All PM2 & Military sprints/exclusives I can get my grubby hands on :) :spyder: :) :spyder: :)
"We may look curious, homely, whatever, but we'll never be called unusable or undependable."
My Grails: Lum Tanto folder sprint, Sprint Persian(red), Captain, Manix 2 (M4), SB MT, PM2 M390, CF dodo, Manix2 (CF S90V),Manix2 XL S90V, Zowada CF Balance Rassenti Nivarna, Lil' Nilakka, Tuff, Police 4, Chinook 4, Caly HAP40 52100 Military, S110V Military, Any/All PM2 & Military sprints/exclusives I can get my grubby hands on :) :spyder: :) :spyder: :)
"We may look curious, homely, whatever, but we'll never be called unusable or undependable."
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Nice catch, guys!
Huh, thought I'd seen all the different ways to tell a fake's box from real ones, but that corner swoop is a new one. I'll keep that in mind too ^^
Huh, thought I'd seen all the different ways to tell a fake's box from real ones, but that corner swoop is a new one. I'll keep that in mind too ^^
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Nice catch, guys!
Huh, thought I'd seen all the different ways to tell a fake's box from real ones, but that corner swoop is a new one. I'll keep that in mind too ^^
Huh, thought I'd seen all the different ways to tell a fake's box from real ones, but that corner swoop is a new one. I'll keep that in mind too ^^
- SpyderEdgeForever
- Member
- Posts: 6394
- Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
- Location: USA
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Wow man..that is just..scary That the fakers are able to make things that, unless you look very carefully and compare, at first one may not be able to tell.
I stand behind the genuine Spyderco knives 100 percent. Thank you, Sal.
I stand behind the genuine Spyderco knives 100 percent. Thank you, Sal.
Re: Endura dud or fake?
Thanks guys, hope it helps in someway for people.
@Spinynorman I didn't even notice that!
It's a real shame that these copies are out there waiting for that unsuspecting person to buy it thinking its real. The seller said he bought it from a Gun shop in the US on a trip and had it posted back to him here in England, he didn't know it wasn't genuine either.
@Spinynorman I didn't even notice that!
It's a real shame that these copies are out there waiting for that unsuspecting person to buy it thinking its real. The seller said he bought it from a Gun shop in the US on a trip and had it posted back to him here in England, he didn't know it wasn't genuine either.
Sprig - Mule M390 - Military Cruwear - GB1 - GB2 - Para 2 S35VN - Delica HAP40 - Domino - PITS - Salt 1 SE
- SpyderEdgeForever
- Member
- Posts: 6394
- Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 6:53 pm
- Location: USA
Re: Endura dud or fake?
my question is this: As far as everyone here knows, has anyone ever directly confronted a knife counterfeiter and what was their response? I would like to see these people confronted and see what their responses are to the fact that they are basically thieves.