My on going salt steel comparison journal

[Windward]

This will be my ongoing experiences with all 3 salts as my work steels...

Recently, there has been a lot of discussion involving the now 3 salt steels, and I've seen a lot of opinions of thoughts on them all. I just wanted to share my experiences of real world, hard use, in all 3, with the hopes that it makes it easier for people to decide what is best for them.
When I first got into spyderco i bought a salt, because i needed something rust proof. At the time h1 was my only choice, so my choice was easy. Nowadays, with 3 steels it could be confusing, esspecially if you don't have a knife hobby. While there is a good amount of info about all three, so much of it, to me, doesn't tell us the whole story Paper and rope cuts only give you "controlled environment" results. They don't tell what you might see in a real world situarion. I had never heard of catra or similar tests before joining here, and if im being honest im still in my infancy of even pretending to understand metalurgy. A lot of the info comparing these, is not going to help everyome. What's always told me the most is real world experience, and hopefully i can offer some of that
My background is in working on the water. Im a saltwater flyfishing guide on the east end of long island. Guiding is the lesser knife use of my two jobs, but it's about the best corrosion test there is. Small boat + angry north atlantic ocean = knives getting salt soaked daily. My other job makes me abuse my knives though. On offdays, offseason, and sometimes after charters I work for a business building/maintaining/installing moorings, doing boat/vehicle maintanance, dock building, building/grounds maintainance, driving boats, diving under boats, and basically anything that lets me put my knives in less than ideal situations. A full spectrum of use opportunity.

So here is how each steel has faired for me. I plan to keep this ongoing, as i get more experience with magnacut especially.

H2 (For this purpose, i'm considering h1 & h2 one in the same)

Knives used : pacific salt2 PE, atlantic salt SE, salt 2 wharncliffe SE, stretch2xl SE (new)

As of writing this, this is my favorite steel. Insanely tough, and ive never rusted it. My plain edge pacific was my first spyderco, and this was the first year i cleaned it. Not a speck of rust anywhere. I have hit this steel into metal more times than I can count. I've cut into metal reinforced exhaust hose, cut through steel belted tires, and ive never chipped it. I have rolled it, and deformed scallops on serrated but never so bad that it wouldnt keep going. I've used them as pry bars, and have turned more hose clamp screws with my atlantic's tip than I care to admit. The knife has taken more abuse than it was probably meant to. Even when it does deform, the sharpmaker in my tool box brings it back to life in minutes. PE performance isnt the best, but if youre not making a million cuts a day its fine. SE however, lasts a long time and its my preference. When I get rid of old mooring pendants, I separate the thimbles for recycling. With a SE blade I can cut through these heavy 1" salt, sand and barnacle crusted lines, hitting the hard steel thimbles all day Without concern. I've cut fiberglass with it, scraped barnacles and gaskets, and it just keeps going. For ultility work id say go SE, for a knife that gets less use but you never want to rust. PE is tough to beat. For PE and SE is keep them around 15dps and coarse. Its easiear with the 15 degree side of the sharpmaker. For serrated i usuall go 8 passes on the swrrated side to everyone on the flat.


LC200N
Knives used : pacific salt 2 PE, Salt 2 wharncliffe.
This is my choice for work knife PE. At the end of the day, to me, its basically a slightly lesser H2, but with better edge retention. As far as corrosion its really excellent, but i have rusted it, albeit extremely limited amounts. My pacific did every charter with me this year and very minimal rust. It didnt effect performance at all. Most came around the pivot and was unoticable until taking it apart. Strength and toughness is very high too. I have done pretty much everything ive done with h2, and never chipped it, but I have rolled it. Rolling would happen on big impacts with metal or fiberglass, but only once bad enough where the sharpmaker couldnt fix it pretty quickly. I swung it full force into a galvanized cleat and rolled a very small piece high enough that i got a small crack in the bevel. The rest of the knife didnt care though, and i fixed it home with my worksharp system. Easy to sharpen and fix steel. Where is beats h2 is edge retention. To me its slightly better than vg10. I never sharpen it hair popping sharp. I cut rope, not shave with it. And usually keep it a coarse grit around 15dps if i wanna get crazy ill add an 18dps microbevel, but often jts not practical. Ive used the edge to clean up a fiberglass repair, then cut some rope and still have enough edge to cleanly cut shrink wrap. If you want near h2 qualities, with better PE performance lc200n is a great choice.

Magnacut
Knives used : native 5 lw, manix lw (new)

My experience with this is more limited so upcoming posts i hope to share more. So far i think this is the best edc steel of the bunch, but perhaps the 3rd best work steel. Incredibly balanced, but at the cost of toughness and corrosion resistance. It took me about 12 months to get rust on LC, and frankly i just dont have that time on magnacut yet. Ive had some spots discolor and almost patina a little in a couple months, but further testing will see what that means. Toughness is the area I've seen it disappoint me the most. It's a little more prone to edge damage than the others ive found. Ive chipped it very slightly and only once, but it rolls a bit more. Ive also had, more than one occasion that ive bent the bevel, putting like a wave in the edge. Easy to fix but not something ive experienced elsewhere. Edge retention is excellent. Not s110v good, but very good for most stainless I'e found, and the best of the 3. Boat shrink wrap is nasty on blades. I did about 35 boats this year with my native and aside from the occasional strop it cut clean the whole time. Vinyl wrap and strapping. Strap knives give ouy after a couple boats usually. If my tasks are lighter duty, its a wonderful steel. Ive been starting kff aeound 17-18dps and fixing as neccessary with the 40 side of the sharpmaker


So anyway, i know its long winded but this is my experience so far. Hopefully it broke it down into a simple enough terms to give a potential buyer insight on my thoughts on all 3. Esspecially since adding the manix, I look forward to keeping this updated in regards to magnacut and anything else i find. If budget allows, i plan to pick up a chief in both MC and LC PE to have the same parody of blades i did woth LC AND h2.

[vivi]

It's been enjoyable reading your comments on the different salt steels.

I'm a really big fan of them too. Most of my experience is with H1. I have used LC200N for a few years and I enjoy it as well, but like you I've had a better experience overall with H1.

One thing I came to realize over the years is plain edged H1 responds really well to coarse edges. I made this video a couple years back comparing H1 sharpened to a thinner 200 grit edge with a factory edged H1 knife.



I was trying to get the edge holding of the PE Pacific Salt to match the edge retention I was getting out of SE, since I prefer PE overall. With this method I came close enough to achieving thst goal for my needs.

I'm curious specifically about the boat shrink wrap you cut. My father is a retired chemist and he may have developed the wrap you're cutting. He was a big name in the plastics industry and developed many different formulations of shrink wrap for Dow, Huntsman and other companies in that field. I've had access to industrial rolls of plastic wraps my whole life, so your comments stuck out to me. Maybe sometime you could snap a photo and I could compare it to the wrap I've gotten to mess around with? I've gotten to watch my dad test films in all sorts of ways, with machines that wrap up test pallets etc., machines that test the films breaking point and so on. Of course I've used it as a test cut material many times over the years.

[ladybug93]

thank you for starting this thread. i look forward to seeing how the manix fares under your extreme use conditions. i carry my salts in the ocean, but have never pushed them as far as you are, so that input about limitations is really helpful for the rest of us.

[Cycletroll]

Awesome thread windward!
I really appreciate you sharing your experience.
I have most experience with H1 and am trying to build contrasting data points with LC and Magnacut.

[tonijedi]

Thank you for this thread.

I'm a big fan of the Salt series.

About 6 months ago I switched job and came to realize that my former EDC - a PE H1 Dragonfly - wasn't enough for my new tasks. I went back to my SE H1 Salt 2 and it never leaves my pocket.
I work in construction as a field engineer and, although I don't supposedly have to actually work with cutting tools I've to open (big) boxes / pallets, cut plastic straps, scratch wood, etc. and the Salt 2 hasn't failed me.

I want to try LC and MC when budget allows.

Once again, thanks for this topic.

[JSumm]

Your write up on H1 Serrated edge has me pushing for a serrated Stretch XL.

[Windward]

It's been enjoyable reading your comments on the different salt steels.

I'm a really big fan of them too. Most of my experience is with H1. I have used LC200N for a few years and I enjoy it as well, but like you I've had a better experience overall with H1.

One thing I came to realize over the years is plain edged H1 responds really well to coarse edges. I made this video a couple years back comparing H1 sharpened to a thinner 200 grit edge with a factory edged H1 knife.



I was trying to get the edge holding of the PE Pacific Salt to match the edge retention I was getting out of SE, since I prefer PE overall. With this method I came close enough to achieving thst goal for my needs.

I'm curious specifically about the boat shrink wrap you cut. My father is a retired chemist and he may have developed the wrap you're cutting. He was a big name in the plastics industry and developed many different formulations of shrink wrap for Dow, Huntsman and other companies in that field. I've had access to industrial rolls of plastic wraps my whole life, so your comments stuck out to me. Maybe sometime you could snap a photo and I could compare it to the wrap I've gotten to mess around with? I've gotten to watch my dad test films in all sorts of ways, with machines that wrap up test pallets etc., machines that test the films breaking point and so on. Of course I've used it as a test cut material many times over the years.

Thanks vivi, your pists here about sharpening coarse got me trying it long before even joining, so thankyou for that. The wrap is use, atleast this year, is husky marine branded 8mm. Its a linear low density polyethylene. Takes a good amount of heat to shrink it, but it covers the boats well during the winter. Im sure its made by some larger company and rebranded throughout the marine industry. A lot of summer only people here will wrap up decl furniture, cars, and whatever else too.

[Windward]

thank you for starting this thread. i look forward to seeing how the manix fares under your extreme use conditions. i carry my salts in the ocean, but have never pushed them as far as you are, so that input about limitations is really helpful for the rest of us.

Thanks. I do as well. The manix lw is my favorite golden made knife. Maybe in tje longer blade, ill enjoy it more

[Windward]

Your write up on H1 Serrated edge has me pushing for a serrated Stretch XL.

They can be tough to say no to haha.

[sal]

Hey Windward,

Thanks for the thread and for sharing your experience. I believe Real World Testing is very important in refining.

Talkin’ Story;

My wife, Gail, and I are sailors and divers and so we've always been looking for a good rust resistant material with which to make a salt water knife. It’s really challenging because an edge rusts first because it is exposed on both sides. Some companies chrome plated their knives to prevent rust, but when the edge was sharpened, the chrome was gone, so it was the first part of the knife to rust.

Over the years we've tested a lot of materials. We tested a variety of ceramics from different suppliers. We tested different alloys of Titanium. We tested all kinds of steels that were supposed to be rust proof and nothing really worked. In fact I remember one test piece that a custom knife maker made for us. He said his steel would never rust, and so I was holding his knife in my hand as I dropped off the boat and as I was descending down into the water, I could see the rust forming on the blade while it was in my hand. By the time I reached 40 feet it was completely rusted. LOL.

The first Nitrogen steel (that I am aware of) which was created in Europe was called Cronidor 30. We tried to buy it but the foundry wouldn't sell it to us for two reasons; 1) We were an international company and they feared that if we sent knives made with Cronidor to an unfriendly country, they could reverse engineer the chemistry and knock it off without honoring their patent, and 2) was that NASA was buying all they could make for ball bearings.

The next Nitrogen steel to come along was the Japanese steel H1. After a lot of testing, we decided that H1 would work for us and so we jumped on it pretty hard. In our testing, we found out that the plain edge H1 was not the best for edge retention, but it sharpened up easily and as Vivi said, worked better with a Coarse edge. We were surprised by the edge retention of the serrated version which is unusually effective.

Later on, after the patents ran out on Cronidor 30, an associate in the industry was able to get it for us but we had to call it LC200N as the name Cronidor 30 was trademarked. It also proved to be very good in testing and so we added it to our salt line.

Then Larrin Thomas designed MagnaCut. We've known Larrin for a long time and we knew of his experience and knowledge, so we were sure that MagnaCut would be a very good steel. It wasn't a Nitrogen based Steel, but In our testing, we also learned that it was exceptional for corrosion resistance. Eric and the R&D team continued testing in that area and eventually decided that we could make it as a Salt model.

There are other steels being developed for corrosion resistance and I'm sure more will come along. We are very fortunate to be living in a time when the technological advancements in blades keeps improving "the cut".

sal

"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to humankind".

[SaltyCaribbeanDfly]

Wow!!! Killer thread Windward and Sal’s comment is just icing on the cake…real world testing is the ultimate imo…the Stretch XL Salt SE is my new favorite knife in it’s size category and I’m really anticipating your findings on magnacut

[Windward]

Hey Windward,

Thanks for the thread and for sharing your experience. I believe Real World Testing is very important in refining.

Talkin’ Story;

My wife, Gail, and I are sailors and divers and so we've always been looking for a good rust resistant material with which to make a salt water knife. It’s really challenging because an edge rusts first because it is exposed on both sides. Some companies chrome plated their knives to prevent rust, but when the edge was sharpened, the chrome was gone, so it was the first part of the knife to rust.

Over the years we've tested a lot of materials. We tested a variety of ceramics from different suppliers. We tested different alloys of Titanium. We tested all kinds of steels that were supposed to be rust proof and nothing really worked. In fact I remember one test piece that a custom knife maker made for us. He said his steel would never rust, and so I was holding his knife in my hand as I dropped off the boat and as I was descending down into the water, I could see the rust forming on the blade while it was in my hand. By the time I reached 40 feet it was completely rusted. LOL.

The first Nitrogen steel (that I am aware of) which was created in Europe was called Cronidor 30. We tried to buy it but the foundry wouldn't sell it to us for two reasons; 1) We were an international company and they feared that if we sent knives made with Cronidor to an unfriendly country, they could reverse engineer the chemistry and knock it off without honoring their patent, and 2) was that NASA was buying all they could make for ball bearings.

The next Nitrogen steel to come along was the Japanese steel H1. After a lot of testing, we decided that H1 would work for us and so we jumped on it pretty hard. In our testing, we found out that the plain edge H1 was not the best for edge retention, but it sharpened up easily and as Vivi said, worked better with a Coarse edge. We were surprised by the edge retention of the serrated version which is unusually effective.

Later on, after the patents ran out on Cronidor 30, an associate in the industry was able to get it for us but we had to call it LC200N as the name Cronidor 30 was trademarked. It also proved to be very good in testing and so we added it to our salt line.

Then Larrin Thomas designed MagnaCut. We've known Larrin for a long time and we knew of his experience and knowledge, so we were sure that MagnaCut would be a very good steel. It wasn't a Nitrogen based Steel, but In our testing, we also learned that it was exceptional for corrosion resistance. Eric and the R&D team continued testing in that area and eventually decided that we could make it as a Salt model.

There are other steels being developed for corrosion resistance and I'm sure more will come along. We are very fortunate to be living in a time when the technological advancements in blades keeps improving "the cut".

sal

"Continual improvement is our evolutionary obligation to humankind".

Thanks for chiming in sal. Its always cool to hear the backstory of products i love. It's no coincidence that salt series knives are in the pockets of most fishing guides, sailors, and marine mechanics i know. They are that good. Frankly, id be thrilled if any one one of the steels was our only option; to have 3 we are spoiled. That just stands to the work and cqi you, gail, eric and everyone ay spyderco has put into them to make them the best on the market. So thank you for that

[elena86]

Thanks for the thread. For me, H1 in spyderedge is money. If I had to go on a trip around the world the SE Pac Salt would be my numero uno choice. If I had to chose a fixie, the SE Jumpmaster 2 has no competition. It's a beast.

[kriezek]

Thank you for the real world information and back story. Truly awesome!

[Doc Dan]

Great thread! I've enjoyed it and would like more.

[Stuart Ackerman]

I need to get an LC200N blade at at some time, maybe when I get to Golden?

[bladesandbeverages]

Great thread. Looking forward to updates.

[WilliamMunny]

Windward,

Thanks for the reviews of the steels. I was on the fence for the new Stretch XL H2 SE for a new hiking/outdoor/yard knife and your praise for H2 made it an easy buy.

[cabfrank]

This is a great thread. Related to the knife and not the steel, is there blade play or lock rock?

[Enactive]

I have used LC much more than H1/2 and MC.

I tend to prefer FFG blades for a lot of the media that I cut, so LC and MC have appealed to me much more than the H alloys. I am just getting more time in with my MC Native Salt, but not enough to add anything.

Thanks, Windward, for starting this thread and giving your good real world reports!