New Steel Testing Method! My wife and the cupboard.

[toomanyquestions]

Excellent idea Jeff ! I love this test, you just need to own a cupboard, and a wife, and the deed is done

I would like this if there was a button!

[Traditional.Sharpening]

For all the folks who have been marching around this forum with protest signs reading: "DOWN WITH CATRA; DOWN WITH CHARPY; DOWN WITH ROPES; WE DEMAND REAL-WORLD TESTING NOW!" ...well, here it is, folks! Served up to you by the notorious Mrs. JSumm herself.

Is anyone saying these tests are pointless? I've not made that argument but I will say that they don't often mean what people think they mean. RC numbers don't mean what people think they do, at most they should be used as a means to gauge (as a manufacturer) whether the heat treat has been executed correctly on a given knife relative to what is expected in general. Higher RC doesn't make a better knife, contrary to what many here would believe... all things being equal of course. Many would argue that you SHOULD heat treat a knife to achieve a given RC value. This is never a good idea, you should heat treat to achieve different properties of the steel for the given knife application and the RC is what it is with those properties.

The problem with these tests is that people often don't understand what they prove or in many cases DO NOT prove directly. Again, without someone who has attempted to show that these models are valid in general use then great care has to be used with extrapolating what you can really take away from all this data as it likely means very little in actual use. Case in point, I see that BD1N knife the OP shows and I think it did pretty well all things considered. How would you expect something like S90V at 65 RC to hold up with random non-knife person abuse stuff? I'd have that knife cutting like new again in a few minutes on a coarse stone. I don't see anything serious damage-wise that would suggest it is a poor choice of steel.

The funny thing here is that the very thing that is often suggested as making a superior thing in a knife steel, ie. excessive carbide volume, would be the very thing that would make any steel less suitable for the type of use in the kitchen that the OP is displaying. I'd expect MORE damage present for that type use. BD1N is a medium carbide steel, anecdotally these types of examples actually go a great deal towards proving that this is a very sensible choice of steel for many users. Can anybody explain to me how added carbide volume would lead to a better outcome with this example in the OP? I don't actually see any real chips in the pics, btw. It looks more like denting/rolling, which is exactly what is expected behavior in this class of steel in general.

[JSumm]

Exactly. Wait what?

Definitely chipping but very micro level. After my photo lessons and the kids go to sleep whatever time that is, I'll try and get some better close up shots. It could be denting where a small piece also happened to fall out.

[RustyIron]

random non-knife person

Are you suggesting that JSumm's data would be more accurate if he randomized his selection of wives?



As interesting as this sounds, Mrs. JSumm might not approve of the testing methodology.

[JSumm]

I tried to single this one spot out. I believe in the knife testing world they call this Trepidare from Latin. Meaning the Vanadium carbide is running away in fear and anxiety of what the user is getting ready to do with it. This is long term testing, so I will get some better equipment for pictures.

[JSumm]

random non-knife person

Are you suggesting that JSumm's data would be more accurate if he randomized his selection of wives?



As interesting as this sounds, Mrs. JSumm might not approve of the testing methodology.

No I'm interested. Tell me more about this method.

[Bolster]

Are you suggesting that JSumm's data would be more accurate if he randomized his selection of wives?

LOLOLOL

[jwbnyc]

That’s impressive for just a day or two.

Kudos to Mrs. JSumm.

[Fastidiotus]

I like the premise of this thread. After being fairly impressed by BD1N, I turned my Cat into the house knife that's always available for my girlfriend to use when she needs to do knife things. Just to see how it would fair. After the first use she commented it was a lot sharper than the box cutter she normally grabs for.

So far it's been going on 3 weeks and after that first time using it, neither of us have been able to find it. Though I was told "I'm pretty sure I didn't throw it away accidentally" so at least we know definitely for a fact it didn't get thrown away accidentally.

[Traditional.Sharpening]

Exactly. Wait what?

Definitely chipping but very micro level. After my photo lessons and the kids go to sleep whatever time that is, I'll try and get some better close up shots. It could be denting where a small piece also happened to fall out.

If you believe that it is chipping microscopically have you tried to verify this under some form of magnification? I'm not saying it's not possible but everything I have seen firsthand and secondhand with this steel suggests it's very difficult to actually chip and it tends to roll or deform on contact with hard materials. I accidentally smacked the edge of my Z-cut at something like 6 DPS on the edge of my stone countertop and there was no signs of chipping though it did dent the edge slightly. As I said, this is the exact steel from Spyderco I would put in the hands of someone who I expect might do silly things with it for that reason.

[JSumm]

The last few images are of K390. I have already straightened up the edge of BD1N.

I tried to get some better pictures last night, but the kids were very distracting and not at all helpful in the scientific process. Plus, my robo vacuum kept bumping into my foot. The kitchen may be one of the hardest places for any scientific control. The amount of shipping and goods that go through there not to mention the hands and feet that have been or touched god knows what throughout the day, it is difficult to imagine that we also eat and entertain in this place.

[JSumm]

So far it's been going on 3 weeks and after that first time using it, neither of us have been able to find it. Though I was told "I'm pretty sure I didn't throw it away accidentally" so at least we know definitely for a fact it didn't get thrown away accidentally.

This is the kind of scientific thinking we need in this testing method. You narrowed down the possibilities and we can rest assured that no knife was accidentally discarded. Maybe malicously, but definitely not accidentally pretty sureably.

[Donut]

"Some might say" that a utility blade would be best for this type of stuff.

[Doc Dan]

JSumm, this cracks me up. Does your wife have a secret job cutting dry wall and scraping old plaster?

[JSumm]

JSumm, this cracks me up. Does your wife have a secret job cutting dry wall and scraping old plaster?

Seriously! I have no idea what is going on in there. I may have to install a camera to add to this testing methodology.

I have cut a lot of drywall, but only once with a pocket knife. That was because I was in a big box store that will let you buy half a sheet and not a single worker around had a utility blade on them. But even then, even then my edge wasn't bad at all.

We will figure this out together though. There has to be a ranking of best cupboard knife steels.

[TkoK83Spy]

Some people get so technical, it really sucks the fun out of it.

[Bolster]

I tried to get some better pictures last night, but the kids were very distracting and not at all helpful in the scientific process. Plus, my robo vacuum kept bumping into my foot. The kitchen may be one of the hardest places for any scientific control. The amount of shipping and goods that go through there not to mention the hands and feet that have been or touched god knows what throughout the day, it is difficult to imagine that we also eat and entertain in this place.

This thread is the best. Nothing better than getting ongoing laboratory notes while the experiment is in progress.

Regards the children, I've found the best way to keep my sanity is to consider the children as subjects of my experiments. I've also tried this method on the wife, with disastrous results, so I don't recommend that at all. Wives really resent being experimented on, I've discovered, though I've no idea why. It was only an attempt to expand the base of knowledge, after all. (Even that explanation fell flat.)

At any rate, I highly approve of the methodology utilized in this experiment. I've brought it to the attention of the Nobel Prize committee and they were at a loss for words, which I take to be a good sign.

[wrdwrght]

random non-knife person

Are you suggesting that JSumm's data would be more accurate if he randomized his selection of wives?



As interesting as this sounds, Mrs. JSumm might not approve of the testing methodology.

Too hilarious.

Now following this delicious thread.

[Manixguy@1994]

I suspect Dee Dee may be testing when everyone is asleep . Dan

[JSumm]

Grants and donations are pouring in like monsoon season in India. We are upgrading our testing equipment. Only small dings/chips/burrs/anomalies on the K390 at this point but I only have 2.5 days of testing. My wife is out of town and the kids are only playing the finger game with the knife. I'll probably not update for a couple of weeks until she can get some usage in.

Bummed that I cleaned up the edge on the BD1N, but that is how it goes in science sometimes, so my colleagues tell me. You just get bummed. Lots of bumming around.

**Edit - below is the K390