Military 2 (PRE-ORDER) posted on KnifeCenter $196

[Laphroaig9]

Spyderco Military 2 Compression Lock Folding Knife 4" S30V Satin Plain Blade, Black G10 Handles - C36GP2.......$196.

Description
SP36GP2: C36GP2 Military 2 Folding Knife
Spyderco Knives
Designed by Spyderco co-founder Sal Glesser as the perfect knife for forward-deployed military personnel, the original Military Model is one of the cutlery industry’s most iconic designs. More than 25 years after its original release, the eagerly anticipated Military 2 builds on that hard-earned reputation while incorporating several significant design improvements. Instead of a LinerLock, the Military 2’s full-flat ground CPM-S30V blade is supported by Spyderco’s signature Compression Loc mechanism, which offers greater strength and even safer one-handed operation. The stainless steel liners that form the foundation of the lock are larger, giving the knife increased structural strength and anchoring its four-position pocket clip, which is configurable for left or right-side, tip-up or tip-down carry. The skeletonized liners are nested within peel-ply-textured G10 scales to maintain a slim profile and complement its open-backed construction to reduce the knife’s overall weight. A proud successor to a legendary design, the Military 2 is ready to serve.

Pros: Lock Type, Handle Feel, Lock Ease of Use
Cons: None
OMG I'm excited about this one.
Everything I hated about the best knife I ever carried for two years have been fixed. This seriously is going to be head and shoulders above the Para 2. Bigger blade but it weighs LESS. Can't wait for different steels and handle materials as well. This is a instant classic reborn to be the best.

[Fine Swine]

Give it titanium and a different steel and I'm in. Spyderco's S30V has always seemed chippy to me.

[Evil D]

So just a couple things...


There are a couple huge threads on this knife already (not knocking you for making another one, just thought you should be aware since that'll likely be where info is shared). Also I'm fairly certain that weight is a typo and I think we discussed that somewhere but I can't say for sure. I believe the notes were wrong on the Amsterdam thread and that may be where this info is getting around from? I'm no physics guru but a bigger knife of nearly the exact same construction is not going to weigh less. Would be amazing though, I'd be so happy to be wrong.

[Wartstein]

... Also I'm fairly certain that weight is a typo and I think we discussed that somewhere but I can't say for sure. I believe the notes were wrong on the Amsterdam thread and that may be where this info is getting around from? I'm no physics guru but a bigger knife of nearly the exact same construction is not going to weigh less. Would be amazing though, I'd be so happy to be wrong.

According to the specs on the Spyderco site the Millie 2 weighs 4.3 oz, the PM2 3.8 ...

[kennethsime]

KnifeCenter is a bit notorious for posting these early.

[BeggarSo]

I have had my preorder in for a while now and whenever it hits is fine by me, no hurry.

For those knocking S30V or bored with it you probably are not sharpening it correctly to it's full potential, it took me years to figure it out and now it is what I carry every day. S30V PM2 DLC Wharncliffe to be exact.

A week or so ago I had to perform a huge network / Server /Workstation deployment with 5 other I.T. Professionals and the sheer amount of cardboard I had to break down and and Velcro strapping cut to length to secure to secure wiring bundles really made S30V blow me a way all over again. It just stayed sharp and the guy I loaned my knife to was like Woah his knife is freaking sharp and that was after I had already broken down a large amount of cardboard with it.

Sharpening is manual using a Spyderco CBN Stone first 400 mesh side followed by 800 mesh side and then finished on only one 1 side with the White ceramic Stone on the CBN / Ceramic double stuff. or the Gauntlet Ceramics.

Yesterday I disposed of an dirty old garden hose and this way of sharpening and this blade sliced it very easily.

[Gtscotty]

I learned my Knife Center preorder lesson with the N5 Salt and Waterway.... Not that they did anything wrong really, but they'll take a preorder before the knife is even on the horizon, and weren't near the front of the line to start pumping them out when they actually started shipping. I wound up cancelling both of those and buying other places that had already gotten stock.

[Ferruginous]

I have had my preorder in for a while now and whenever it hits is fine by me, no hurry.

For those knocking S30V or bored with it you probably are not sharpening it correctly to it's full potential, it took me years to figure it out and now it is what I carry every day. S30V PM2 DLC Wharncliffe to be exact.

A week or so ago I had to perform a huge network / Server /Workstation deployment with 5 other I.T. Professionals and the sheer amount of cardboard I had to break down and and Velcro strapping cut to length to secure to secure wiring bundles really made S30V blow me a way all over again. It just stayed sharp and the guy I loaned my knife to was like Woah his knife is freaking sharp and that was after I had already broken down a large amount of cardboard with it.

Sharpening is manual using a Spyderco CBN Stone first 400 mesh side followed by 800 mesh side and then finished on only one 1 side with the White ceramic Stone on the CBN / Ceramic double stuff. or the Gauntlet Ceramics.

Yesterday I disposed of an dirty old garden hose and this way of sharpening and this blade sliced it very easily.

I couldn't agree more. I used to believe that S30V was prone to chipping, but I was sharpening it wrong and leaving a burr thinking I had a good edge. The burr would chip, obviously, and I was ignorant in assuming that it was the edge itself. You don't know what you don't know.

S30V, properly sharpened and having a proper heat treat, holds a working edge seemingly forever. I'm almost positive that most people who believe that S30V is lower tier steel couldn't tell the difference between S30V, S90V, S35VN, M390, etc.

[Evil D]

I'm almost positive that most people who believe that S30V is lower tier steel couldn't tell the difference between S30V, S90V, S35VN, M390, etc.

I think the problem is that the people who can tell the difference have spoke up about it and others dismiss the steel as being inferior, which it may technically be but that doesn't mean it's poor just based on that comparison. Many steels that are not just considered lower end, that literally ARE lower end, are still just fine for daily use. People just tend to want to feel like they're buying the best possible thing for their money and gravitate towards what is said to be the best.

[tulsamal]

Even if I accept that S30v might be better than I think... and I'm totally willing to believe that is possible... there are two things that always pull me away from a knife made with S30V.

1) Yeah, I know this is stupid and it shouldn't matter... but S30V is just so "common" that it is flat out boring. If I pull out an exciting new $200-$300 knife and then see S30V stamped on the blade... that lowers the excitement level quite a bit. I don't need super exotic but just the sheer number of knives across brands that use this steel... it makes it less compelling when I see a cool new knife and then see that is the steel.(It's the main reason I never bought a Subvert... I really want one... but a $400 knife with S30V?)

2) I've been around knives long enough that I remember when it was the general consensus that S30V did have some problems as a general use steel... so the steel makers tweaked it a bit to correct those issues... and we got the new and improved S35V. Which most of us sort of assumed would gradually move up and nearly totally replace S30V as the new standard steel for decent knives. But then supply problems and cost problems with S35V... and even today you don't see it nearly as much as I thought we would years ago.

So yeah, not totally rational answers, little too emotional instead... but I only buy 2-3 good knives a year. I'm going to notice if it has something above average for steel. I only have one Military (CPM 440V, Golden, CO, FS) and it stays mostly stashed away in a bug out bag... if the new one eventually comes out with "something" even one step above S30V... I'll probably buy one. Otherwise, probably not.

[Wartstein]

...
2) I've been around knives long enough that I remember when it was the general consensus that S30V did have some problems as a general use steel... so the steel makers tweaked it a bit to correct those issues... and we got the new and improved S35V. Which most of us sort of assumed would gradually move up and nearly totally replace S30V as the new standard steel....

Not an expert by any means, but I seem to recall that S35VN to a large part is an "improvement" for the makers (a bit easier to work with), and not necessarily for the users.
I personally, just by their specs, would take S30V over S35VN just cause of the a bit better edge holding of the former.
Tough enough has S30V always been anyway in a folder for me.

[TomAiello]

If you want a Military 2 in some other steel, the sales of this base model need to justify it.

I think this would be a good 'crucarta' model, and I'm neither a big military guy nor a big crucarta guy.

Magnacut Military 2, on the other hand...

[Evil D]

Even if I accept that S30v might be better than I think... and I'm totally willing to believe that is possible... there are two things that always pull me away from a knife made with S30V.

1) Yeah, I know this is stupid and it shouldn't matter... but S30V is just so "common" that it is flat out boring. If I pull out an exciting new $200-$300 knife and then see S30V stamped on the blade... that lowers the excitement level quite a bit. I don't need super exotic but just the sheer number of knives across brands that use this steel... it makes it less compelling when I see a cool new knife and then see that is the steel.(It's the main reason I never bought a Subvert... I really want one... but a $400 knife with S30V?)

2) I've been around knives long enough that I remember when it was the general consensus that S30V did have some problems as a general use steel... so the steel makers tweaked it a bit to correct those issues... and we got the new and improved S35V. Which most of us sort of assumed would gradually move up and nearly totally replace S30V as the new standard steel for decent knives. But then supply problems and cost problems with S35V... and even today you don't see it nearly as much as I thought we would years ago.

So yeah, not totally rational answers, little too emotional instead... but I only buy 2-3 good knives a year. I'm going to notice if it has something above average for steel. I only have one Military (CPM 440V, Golden, CO, FS) and it stays mostly stashed away in a bug out bag... if the new one eventually comes out with "something" even one step above S30V... I'll probably buy one. Otherwise, probably not.

I'm sure I have defended both sides of this debate. On one hand I know I've said that steels like VG10 and S30V and even 1095 and 52100 and all those average or even lower edge retention steels are perfectly fine and people should just take them for what they are.

On the other side I completely understand that "it just feel more special" feeling and I am just as guilty of buying knives based on that as anyone else. Those other steels won't stop me from buying a model I really like if it's my only option but if I do have the option I am probably going for the warm and fuzzy special steel. Really it's more just that it's something different...if they brought out a knife that I already like in 52100 I would be all over it even though it's considered lower end than something like 15V.


As for the Military 2, I think sales might be a little soft out the gate but I would be absolutely shocked if it got discontinued based on initial sales alone. It's a flagship model, it will no doubt see steel variants.

[Scandi Grind]

For those knocking S30V or bored with it you probably are not sharpening it correctly to it's full potential, it took me years to figure it out and now it is what I carry every day. S30V PM2 DLC Wharncliffe to be exact.

...

Sharpening is manual using a Spyderco CBN Stone first 400 mesh side followed by 800 mesh side and then finished on only one 1 side with the White ceramic Stone on the CBN / Ceramic double stuff. or the Gauntlet Ceramics.

I've heard this sentiment a few times about S30V and I'm getting a bit more interested in modern steels. Usually I am a high carbon low alloy kinda guy, but I want to understand what is different about more modern steels.

What are the key points when sharpening S30V?

If I were to speculate based on what I know, I would think abrasive selection could be important, but I'm not sure what is necessary or ideal. It also seems like minimizing and properly removing the burr is very important. Is deburring any different with S30V than lower wear resistance steels such as VG-10? Is your method of using the fine ceramic on only one side part of the final deburring process perhaps?

I've heard people talk about making sure certain steels are sharpened for their composition, so I am trying to understand what the methods are, but also the goals that these methods are trying to achieve in simple terms so that I can also understand the "why".

[tulsamal]

> Not an expert by any means, but I seem to recall that S35VN to a large part is an "improvement" for the makers (a bit easier to work with), and not necessarily for the users.

You may be right... that's what makes it worth discussing! But if you are right... then what happened? If it is easier for knife makers to use and it magically "uses a higher number so must be better..." and therefore users seek it out ... then why did it end up in such short supply?

I have several S35V knives that I really like... but I have to be honest, none of those knives are knives that I have pushed hard enough to really have an informed opinion.The knife I use the most for dressing out a deer or two every year has S35V and I still have never touched the edge at all. Not a Spydie though... Tops Camp Creek. The other knife I always take out when there is a deer to cut up is a Spydie though and it always surprises me how well it works... despite having a longer blade than I usually prefer for this.. and it is discontinued... Spyderco Gayle Bradley Bowie FB33GP... and it is PSF27.

[JackRussell]

To reiterate, a Military without a liner lock is not a legitimate Military in my eyes -- it's a PM2XL. It's an "emperor has no clothes" scenario. However, Spyderco clearly has the right to name their knives with whatever moniker they choose.

[vivi]

lmao, these millie 2 threads keep on giving. ya'll crack me up with your bitter pm2xl posts.

[dan31]

To reiterate, a Military without a liner lock is not a legitimate Military in my eyes -- it's a PM2XL. It's an "emperor has no clothes" scenario. However, Spyderco clearly has the right to name their knives with whatever moniker they choose.

Agree, like many. Happy for those waiting for the new XL.

[Evil D]

lmao, these millie 2 threads keep on giving. ya'll crack me up with your bitter pm2xl posts.

Not bitter, just honest

[vivi]

Sal, you hear that? You aren't allowed to name your own designs, the folks here know better