Salt handle color and how it changes as you dive

[Evil D]

Huh, pretty cool. Being from Ohio, I have never been deep enough down into the ocean to know this so it might be common knowledge for some (and it definitely makes a lot of sense) but if like me this never occurred to you, this is why Salt handles are the color that they are. Seems like the neon orange would be a better standard color than yellow and it's kinda surprising how bright the pink stays. Now it makes sense why the Coast Guard Autonomy is orange.



Screenshot from Instagram

Actually that's a pretty cool page if you're into sciency stuff.


I'm sure that gets worse and worse the deeper you go.

[Mushroom]

This is something fisherman often pay attention too when selecting their lure colors.

I feel like I've heard Sal mention this before as well regarding the yellow salt series color. The salt series green also seems very appropriate as a deep water color, maybe better than yellow.

[James Y]

Thanks for sharing that, David. I hadn't even thought of that before. I had just assumed the Salt handle colors were chosen for their brightness; never considered their shades change the deeper you go.

TBH, I've never gone further underwater than about 10 feet.

Jim

[LeDe]

Just replied in another thread about the next Salt Magnacut color. But based on that maybe, maybe we should hope for a pink version.
I would definitely not mind.

[ZrowsN1s]

Cool

[Evil D]

Again, I know jack crap about diving but I would think you'd want not just a color that stays bright but also one that seems foreign, that won't blend in with other things in the ocean.

[VooDooChild]

Some of the colors in this test were fluorescent. At least according to the reddit thread with this video. This is going to give different results compared to the same colors in "normal" paint or dye.

[Airlsee]

Thanks for sharing David!

[Bemo]

Back in the late 50's and early 60's when dive watch development was a big deal, the Doxa watch company figured this out and is why many of their models had orange faces. Cousteau was an early endorser and I believe investor as well.

[Cl1ff]

It really is neat!

I think this is definitely something to consider for divers, but would also need to be demonstrated and tested on the actual knives.
Especially the affect of fluorescence.

Spyderco, and maybe some divers, I assume have done some testing on knife handle materials?

Color and light is pretty complicated, so I would assume there are number of variables in consider exactly how each was achieved in normal conditions that would have an effect on the way it looks at certain depths (I am not sure).

In my opinion, luminescence, or bright light emission/reflection would be much more important to visibility than color in an environment with such low visibility.
In this case I guess it is mostly a change in the range of visible light due to depth, but murky water would make color completely irrelevant.

I also think of cavers. They often bring light reflective or glowing objects, as well as flashlights.

I don’t really dive yet, but I’m pretty confident that if you are diving in low visibility, for whatever reason, you would be carrying similar equipment.
Mainly a flashlight. That is how people diving for fossils see anything in Florida’s blackwater rivers. In low visibility, shape is the way to identify an object instead of color when everything is stained by tannins in the water.

Also to my point, many organisms that live in low visibility conditions develop bioluminescence and completely lose all or some pigments.

Potentially, the greater consideration is visibility where these knives will see the vast majority of their use and where their colors will serve a purpose. On or near the surface, usually in daylight.

Even in dusk or dark conditions on land, I don’t think bright colors help too much and shiny reflections or glowing is more effective.
People look for reflections off of eyes in the dark way more than they do any color.


In that context, under light, the bright green, yellow, and orange, obviously stand out in most conditions. Colors stay vibrant near the surface, which is relevant to many kinds of diving too.

I’ve talked a lot about red-orange being another great candidate. In my opinion, that color is the most conspicuous and recognizable in many different situations. (I understand this to be why the Coast Gaurd uses it, but it is also because the Coast Guard uses it that the color is so visible).

In other threads, I’ve mentioned the possibility or exploring highly reflective or glowing materials in Salt knives.

Maybe, the Mule handles can find another purpose through testing of handle materials?

I want to mention more to think about, though.

I say that bright colors don’t matter much in the dark, but below is an interesting example where this is simultaneously true and false.

There is a kind of desert Kingsnake found in Southwestern North America (west Texas, Southern New Mexico, and Northern Mexico) called the Grey-Banded Kingsnake, or “Alterna”.
This snake is nocturnal. It is mostly found by shining rocky cuts along roads that run through their habitat with a flashlight.
This species of kingsnake is grey, but usually has bright orange-red bands. It is relatively easily spotted in the light because of this and some people have wondered if it’s bright coloration affects any ability to hide from predators.

However, I think it is generally now understood the bright orange is not perceived by its nocturnal predators. Its banded contrasting pattern therefore providing excellent camouflage that perfectly matches the greyscale colors of its nocturnal environment when it has not been unnaturally exposed to a flashlight.

Anyways, I mention this because there is just so much to consider with color and light.
Even the most vibrantly patterned animals can blend in when they are observed in their natural context.

I think this can become a really fascinating consideration for functional colors and patterns as applied to knives.

For example, Eric mentioning how much there is to research with coatings in that recent interview.

I recall Spyderco has before stated how complicated and nuanced they find colors to be, and it’s that sort of understanding which really draws me towards their products.

Spyderco seems to realize and genuinely have an interest in how deep these subjects can go.

We’ve barely touched the surface in online discussion of this topic, but I admit my knowledge of the technical workings of color and light is very surface level.

[twinboysdad]

This is something fisherman often pay attention too when selecting their lure colors.

I feel like I've heard Sal mention this before as well regarding the yellow salt series color. The salt series green also seems very appropriate as a deep water color, maybe better than yellow.

Also why metallic spinners and spoons are so effective, the spin/wobble with the reflection of the sun catches their eye

[Cl1ff]

Rather than a Mule, I actually think a Salt Chaparall could be really good for testing Salt Handle materials?
At least, it would be a good excuse to get an LC200N or MagnaCut Chaparall.

[aicolainen]

I’m pretty sure Spyderco has mentioned underwater visibility, at least partly, as the reason they’ve chosen the current scale colors in the Salt line.

I’m not a diver myself, but as a recovering watch addict, I have some insight into dive watches. And at least one dive watch, the NTH DevilRay pays homage to the science of color penetration through water by featuring a rudimentary color-based depth gauge along the seconds track.



It gives the user an indication of current depth as each color fades. Obviously mostly a fun gimmick and not a replacement for a real depth gauge, but still a fun little nod to science and a reminder that colors fade at different rates under water.

[Doc Dan]

Maybe we need more hot pink in our lives? Even at 155 feet the pink was still standing out, as was the bright green. The rest faded away and the yellow changed color!

[RustyIron]

Holy cow, you guys. I didn't know this was a thing. I started thinking on this, and don't yet have clarity. I think the Instagram picture is incorrect. I think it has something to do with the speed of light in water as the density changes, the frequency remaining constant, and the wavelength changing. I can almost understand that, but then I start thinking about how the vitreous humor would affect wavelength and our perception of color. The exact explanation is going to be complicated.

[Danke]

Sunlight contains the full spectrum of visible colors, from red to violet and the whole rainbow in between. Different colors of light have different wavelengths. Red light has long wavelengths. Other colors have progressively shorter wavelengths, with blue and violet the shortest of all.

When light shines through water, colors with longer wavelengths are absorbed by the water, with the longest wavelengths absorbed first. As soon as we get more than a few meters underwater, most red and orange have vanished entirely. Next to go are yellow and green. Blue and violet, on the other hand, have the shortest wavelengths of visible light, so they are able to penetrate the deepest. Not only do they stick around, they’re scattered by particles in the water, making it seem as though the water itself is blue.

https://www.whoi.edu/know-your-ocean/di ... cean-blue/

[Surfingringo]

Interesting stuff. Looks to me like pink and green are two of the best for maintaining their “high visibility”. Though neat, I think deep depth knife visibility is probably overrated as a salt knife characteristic. If you’re diving and drop your knife it’s going to be right next to you on the bottom or it will likely sink further than you’re willing to go to retrieve it. Don’t get me wrong, I would rather have a knife that is more visible at 100ft than less but that characteristic is pretty far down the list of my most important Salt knife attributes.

I’m more into high visibility handle colors for spotting a dropped knife on land or in shallow water. To be able to see my knife that I accidentally dropped on the trail or dropped in the stream or shore line while fishing is more important/practical to me than a color that I can see at 100 ft+. I’m not big on the toxic green from a “style” standpoint but it’s probably one of the better colors for that. Hot pink would also be a good choice. Both of those colors make me question how far am I willing to go for “high visibility” though.

Personally I’d like to see a GITD salt knife. Maybe a GITD/Magnacut exclusive in one of my discontinued favorites.

[Danke]

Interesting stuff. Looks to me like pink and green are two of the best for maintaining their “high visibility”. Though neat, I think deep depth knife visibility is probably overrated as a salt knife characteristic. If you’re diving and drop your knife it’s going to be right next to you on the bottom or it will likely sink further than you’re willing to go to retrieve it. Don’t get me wrong, I would rather have a knife that is more visible at 100ft than less but that characteristic is pretty far down the list of my most important Salt knife attributes.

I’m more into high visibility handle colors for spotting a dropped knife on land or in shallow water. To be able to see my knife that I accidentally dropped on the trail or dropped in the stream or shore line while fishing is more important/practical to me than a color that I can see at 100 ft+. I’m not big on the toxic green from a “style” standpoint but it’s probably one of the better colors for that. Hot pink would also be a good choice. Both of those colors make me question how far am I willing to go for “high visibility” though.

Personally I’d like to see a GITD salt knife. Maybe a GITD/Magnacut exclusive in one of my discontinued favorites.

Call it the "Angler Fish".

[Mushroom]

I agree, I still think a blue glow in the dark FRN would be a cool Salt color to represent the blue bioluminescent algae found in oceans all over the world.

[Cl1ff]

I agree, I still think a blue glow in the dark FRN would be a cool Salt color to represent the blue bioluminescent algae found in oceans all over the world.

I like this idea!

I’ve suggested some GITD FRN as well as GITD/MagnaCut Salts before, but apparently the glow of the FRN isn’t very bright?
I don’t have any GITD FRN, so I don’t really know how it looks in person (that’s one reason I’ve been interested in other glowing materials).

I wonder if there are some that glow under UV lights? I’ve seen many different things glow under UV and they can emit lots of colors.