Respectful feedback and ideas regarding 15V sprint runs

[ForgeThought]

Posting here in the hopes to get visibility from Spyderco management, and to source ideas on how to improve Sprint Runs.

Spydercos products are exceptional, in my opinion. I received one as a wedding gift from my wife. But their awareness and execution regarding how to distribute and sell their recent 15V sprint runs has been abysmal. And I think it's absolutely fixable. My opinion of Spyderco's company leadership hinges on their level of ownership regarding their brand reputation and their own execution on sprint runs. If they address this problem or merely hand wave it.

Spyderco is a global brand in my own backyard and I proudly buy and recommend them. Which is why the recent 15V sprint run drops have been so staggeringly disappointing.

Internal marketing and sales associates not knowing what will be sent when, and where, to who. Employees not knowing when drops or shipments will occur. Nobody seems to know what is going on. Internally or externally.

I signed up for in-stock notifications for over 7 different companies for the 15V paramilitary 2 drops. River's Edge Cutlery, Smoky Mountain Knife works, Knifecenter, Knives Ship Free, Cutlery Shoppe, Indiana Knives, St. Nick's. I have not received a single email. From a single company. And most if not all have had their drops.

Why? Because the IT system(s) being used by these companies send emails not based on *when* the knives drop but when they are *in stock* and the longest they were in stock to my knowledge was 20 minutes. Shortest was 60 seconds. So the system(s) ALL of these vendors use appear to be hopelessly inadequate for sprint run drops. The knives sell before the emails send, so functionally they are broken.

This is absolutely a way of selling a product that will leave people frustrated and feeling lied to. Is it better than getting the email and seeing them sold out? Perhaps. Maybe there's less noise if people just quietly find out days or weeks later they missed out. But then that means one problem is covered up by a separate problem.

So where is Spyderco's ownership of this? Are they aware? Are they letting their vendors know about this issue so they can find better solutions for their customers? Or is it a case of passing the buck? Nobody's fault this is just how it is?

Spyderco is a global brand. There's absolutely more excuses than reasons for a problem like this. So I'd like to see leadership own the broken system and look for solutions. Work with vendors and customers. It absolutely can be improved. Limited supply is what is, but it can be handled in a way that doesn't look and feel so bad.

Better communication on shipping, does that cause a theft risk? Okay, then how about setting drop days with hold-backs that can be sold via a lottery with set slots? OZ sells their Roosevelts via a lottery and that at least feels fair. A mixed sales model where people who missed out still have a chance. That's a step.

Also, pushing Spyderco vendors to notify their customers with pending-availability alerts and telling them to NOT have in-stock alerts on the pages for these sprint runs. Absolutely. That at least levels the playing field for those of us who can't spend our workdays refreshing 10 websites. Because at this point in stock email alerts are a false promise at best and an outright lie at worst now that we know it doesn't work. REC and other vendors often have Facebook groups or Instagram pages. But some folks are trying to get away from living on Facebook, and social media in general.

Lotteries, hold backs, better notifications, and letting vendors know about the logistical problems ahead of time all can be value added here. Spyderco can save a lot of good hard working people a lot of time by simply owning the problems creates by their current Sprint run sales model.

I hate to think how many sales and retail folks have to spend hours of their day explaining to customers how much is out of their control. And it can't be good for the reputation of those companies or for Spyderco. People still talk about the OG Shamn Crucarta drop being messy.

Doing nothing would say a lot about how leadership values the time of both their customers and their partners. And it objectively wastes time and money for a lot of people fielding unhappy calls and emails. This can absolutely be made better.

Are the Sprint runs a reason to be excited? Or a reason to hate working for several days on end? Spyderco has to decide what they value and how to properly demonstrate it. I believe there are even better solutions than what I suggested, as there are plenty of intelligent people working for Spyderco and for all of these vendors. It can be kept fair and improved. I know people, organized, as a group, can find better solutions than these I'm proposing or improve them.

Otherwise likewise the lingering legacy of these 15V sprint runs will be resentment, frustration, and having to stare at eBay scalper prices. Anyone want to pay $2,000 for a Nirvana?

And come on. The story of collaboration, the steel, the value for the price? These are cool knives. Why have such preventable frustration in 2023 when there are so many intelligent, capable people who love knives who can help fix this kind of issue? This could be an awesome success story as much as it could be a business textbook example of how not to release a product.

Those are my thoughts. I hope someone bytes on this and moves it forward at Spyderco. The hobby is amazing and special collaborations like this should be a reason to celebrate. Right now, what do they feel like for most of us?

[Evil D]

I don't think I've ever once missed a sprint or exclusive that I really wanted and I've been hanging out around here for almost 13 years and have seen basically the glory days of this process grow from a once in a while thing to a near constant onslaught of knife variations.



And I hope you wore your fire retardant suit today because you're about to get your pants flamed off. Good luck.

[p_atrick]

I feel like many knife retailers move their important announcements to social media (specifically Instagram). If you don't use that, you are kinda a step or two behind everyone else.

I can't really fault Spyderco for this. They don't (and I would argue should not) dictate the terms of how and when their knives should be sold via a third party. As far as I know, retailers are subject to MAP and that's it. Social media works well because it is fast, cheap, and popular. And while I purposely opt out of almost all forms of social media, I can't expect Spyderco to apply pressure on their retailers to cater to my preferences. In the long-run, dictating strict terms to retail partners has to be detrimental.

But, I get it. The speed at which these sprints and exclusives fly off the shelves is amazing. It can be a real let down when you cannot get what you have been waiting and perhaps patiently saving for. This is a problem. For some, this problem is felt quite acutely. Unfortunately, I don't think there is a good solution.

[Dnwrghtsr]

I don’t think that there is really any solution. Demand is much higher than production. Probably by design. It is easier I think if you know when a dealer will release but you better be on a computer with all information already entered. I got two magnacut mules from Spyderco it was a bit of a fiasco but I got two. The way they do sprints is a real challenge.

[kerrcobra]

There's always somebody whining after every highly anticipated release. I'll echo Evil D; I've gotten every sprint that I wanted.

[CDEP]

I've never received a drop email from a retailer when they get their "Premiere" shipment of 5 units, but I have gotten them when they get the second, larger drop. It varies, of course, from retailer to retailer, but I think most only send emails on the second drop. I snagged the 15v Manix from National Knives via a notification email on the second drop, and got emails from several others where I had signed up. It has taken some effort at times, the hardest being an exclusive at The Knife Joker, but even that drop was available for some time after they got their website cleared of the drop day frenzy. The 3 hours I wasted when the site got jacked up on drop day turned out to be unnecessary.

I've never missed a Sprint/Exclusive that I wanted, and they have all been worth the effort.

[Hopsbreath]

I could have bought five of the Manix 15V and so far have at least had the option to purchase a couple of the PM2s. All without even trying all that hard. Like EvilD said, I’ve never missed a sprint I truly wanted and I just passed the decade mark on this forum. Sure you have to be quick sometimes, but they don’t call it a sprint for nothing!

[JRinFL]

Fear Of Missing Out is real and the everyone in the chain from manufacturers to the retailers exploit it. This is by design. It will not be fixed as it is working as it was designed to work.

My advice is to resist FOMO and skip all the Sprints, Flash Batches, Special Runs, Limited Editions you can. Your life will be better for it. Life is much, much too short to deal with this nonsense.

[Mushroom]

Sprint Run Lottery?! Absolutely not.

The demand for these 15V sprint runs is higher than almost any other sprint to this point and that is well known. If you want one you’re going to have to put in the extra effort to buy one. That’s just the way it is.

This sounds like you’re whining because you can’t get what you want.

[twinboysdad]

TLDR

[ImaCutSumSchitt84]

After many years of being a Spyderco fanboy this is actually the first sprint I was interested in enough to give it a go. After only paying a modest amount of attention to the alert thread I scored yesterday. I understand frustration, in my case I could feel myself getting a lil pissy due to the fact that I'm a blue collar worker in the field and am never at a keyboard and have almost no opportunity to check my phone while knowing many others have nothing more to do than sit at their keyboard hitting refresh all day just to obtain a safe queen or scalp it. With all that I also know when it comes to the system in place basically no one has an advantage also no matter how I or you intend to use the knife does not make anyone more entitled to it than the next guy. A discussion can be constructive but no matter how many changes you'd like there to be to the system there's no way to please everyone. Next you'll have blue collar workers demanding drops happen after hours

[sovereign]

If you can’t get one with the drops going on today I don’t know what to tell you.

[apollo]

I do not know where the OP is from but i do need to say he is correct on the international part.
Spydies always get in all kinds of trouble when leaving US soil.
For example we can wait months for knives that are already out in the US for well months… without any idea when it comes out here. And well i am not going to open that can of worms that are Exclusives.
Since most of the dealers that have them do not even want to sell overseas.

[Bolster]

Fear Of Missing Out is real and the everyone in the chain from manufacturers to the retailers exploit it. This is by design. It will not be fixed as it is working as it was designed to work.

^ This.

Nobody "needs" another knife. Scarcity keeps the wheels of commerce moving.

My advice is to forget past exclusives, and fixate on the next exclusive, where you still have a shot.

[BeggarSo]

Posting here in the hopes to get visibility from Spyderco management, and to source ideas on how to improve Sprint Runs.

Spydercos products are exceptional, in my opinion. I received one as a wedding gift from my wife. But their awareness and execution regarding how to distribute and sell their recent 15V sprint runs has been abysmal. And I think it's absolutely fixable. My opinion of Spyderco's company leadership hinges on their level of ownership regarding their brand reputation and their own execution on sprint runs. If they address this problem or merely hand wave it.

Spyderco is a global brand in my own backyard and I proudly buy and recommend them. Which is why the recent 15V sprint run drops have been so staggeringly disappointing.

Internal marketing and sales associates not knowing what will be sent when, and where, to who. Employees not knowing when drops or shipments will occur. Nobody seems to know what is going on. Internally or externally.

I signed up for in-stock notifications for over 7 different companies for the 15V paramilitary 2 drops. River's Edge Cutlery, Smoky Mountain Knife works, Knifecenter, Knives Ship Free, Cutlery Shoppe, Indiana Knives, St. Nick's. I have not received a single email. From a single company. And most if not all have had their drops.

Why? Because the IT system(s) being used by these companies send emails not based on *when* the knives drop but when they are *in stock* and the longest they were in stock to my knowledge was 20 minutes. Shortest was 60 seconds. So the system(s) ALL of these vendors use appear to be hopelessly inadequate for sprint run drops. The knives sell before the emails send, so functionally they are broken.

This is absolutely a way of selling a product that will leave people frustrated and feeling lied to. Is it better than getting the email and seeing them sold out? Perhaps. Maybe there's less noise if people just quietly find out days or weeks later they missed out. But then that means one problem is covered up by a separate problem.

So where is Spyderco's ownership of this? Are they aware? Are they letting their vendors know about this issue so they can find better solutions for their customers? Or is it a case of passing the buck? Nobody's fault this is just how it is?

Spyderco is a global brand. There's absolutely more excuses than reasons for a problem like this. So I'd like to see leadership own the broken system and look for solutions. Work with vendors and customers. It absolutely can be improved. Limited supply is what is, but it can be handled in a way that doesn't look and feel so bad.

Better communication on shipping, does that cause a theft risk? Okay, then how about setting drop days with hold-backs that can be sold via a lottery with set slots? OZ sells their Roosevelts via a lottery and that at least feels fair. A mixed sales model where people who missed out still have a chance. That's a step.

Also, pushing Spyderco vendors to notify their customers with pending-availability alerts and telling them to NOT have in-stock alerts on the pages for these sprint runs. Absolutely. That at least levels the playing field for those of us who can't spend our workdays refreshing 10 websites. Because at this point in stock email alerts are a false promise at best and an outright lie at worst now that we know it doesn't work. REC and other vendors often have Facebook groups or Instagram pages. But some folks are trying to get away from living on Facebook, and social media in general.

Lotteries, hold backs, better notifications, and letting vendors know about the logistical problems ahead of time all can be value added here. Spyderco can save a lot of good hard working people a lot of time by simply owning the problems creates by their current Sprint run sales model.

I hate to think how many sales and retail folks have to spend hours of their day explaining to customers how much is out of their control. And it can't be good for the reputation of those companies or for Spyderco. People still talk about the OG Shamn Crucarta drop being messy.

Doing nothing would say a lot about how leadership values the time of both their customers and their partners. And it objectively wastes time and money for a lot of people fielding unhappy calls and emails. This can absolutely be made better.

Are the Sprint runs a reason to be excited? Or a reason to hate working for several days on end? Spyderco has to decide what they value and how to properly demonstrate it. I believe there are even better solutions than what I suggested, as there are plenty of intelligent people working for Spyderco and for all of these vendors. It can be kept fair and improved. I know people, organized, as a group, can find better solutions than these I'm proposing or improve them.

Otherwise likewise the lingering legacy of these 15V sprint runs will be resentment, frustration, and having to stare at eBay scalper prices. Anyone want to pay $2,000 for a Nirvana?

And come on. The story of collaboration, the steel, the value for the price? These are cool knives. Why have such preventable frustration in 2023 when there are so many intelligent, capable people who love knives who can help fix this kind of issue? This could be an awesome success story as much as it could be a business textbook example of how not to release a product.

Those are my thoughts. I hope someone bytes on this and moves it forward at Spyderco. The hobby is amazing and special collaborations like this should be a reason to celebrate. Right now, what do they feel like for most of us?

I could not agree with you more but after it being like this for so long the answer is the way things are being done is known, is permitted, is intentional, is profitable and exactly what all parties concerned in the selling of these luxury products want.

The only way it will stop is if people stop buying under these conditions but that is not likely to happen because the people buying are well enough off that they can afford it and are not opposed to it by principles.

So what is your remedy?

Get in the ring and fight for the drop.

Do not pay Scalper prices.

Do without.

These are the only real options.

Wants are endless needs are few.

Speaking for myself I will get in the game and buy but not from scalpers or those taking advantage of a sprint run for example and charging much higher prices. That's where I draw the line on my personal greed. This is when it runs up against my principals of what is fair, just and correct conduct. It is also within my principals to withhold all purchases from those who participate in said behavior and instead buy from their competitors.

Sure I have been collecting long enough to know what I can flip for a profit like the upcoming Military in 4V but I don't because in my book that is just plain wrong.

I know how I would feel if someone pulled that number and I missed out on a drop and see it all the time and don't like it, so I don't do it and refuse to support it.

Maybe you should also?

Better to do without than **** myself.

[Rymanz]

It's fine how it is.

[CDEP]

Spyderco has something for literally everyone. From the $38 Ambitious LW to the $644 Paysan; in terms of price, steels, edge & use type - by any measure, Spyderco offers more to the consumer than any other maker.

Sprints are for the enthusiast/collector who has the time & cash to pursue them, but we also see that they can lead to similar production variants in the future. Many, including myself, enjoy the hunt and the pride of ownership that follows. The scarcity is part of what makes them special to the intended consumers. Eliminate that and the the treat for this niche is eliminated.

I don't see anything nefarious or greedy in the Sprints from Spyderco. They take the full risk on Sprints, unlike Exclusives, and not all are successful. Dealers gouging is beyond Golden's control, and within the retailer's discretion. I do take note, however, and have eliminated a few from future purchases. That's their call and their risk as retailers. Not how I would do business, but not my call.

I can't afford a Paysan, but am happy for those who can, and grateful to Sal & Eric for all the other amazing models I can afford. I hope they make bank on all the Paysans they sell so they can pay their employees well and enjoy their success.

To me, wishing the Sprints were different is like wishing the Paysan was made so I could afford it. It doesn't make sense.

There are customers who can't even afford a production PM2, but the value folders available to them are wonderful. The Astute and Persistence LW are both in my rotation along with the Sprints & Exclusives. I honestly don't know how they do it.

Perhaps the most amazing thing of all is that even though Spyderco goes much further for us than any other maker, Sal & Eric will read this thread and consider all viewpoints, striving to do better somehow. And somehow, they will.

[Brock O Lee]

I don't think I've ever once missed a sprint or exclusive that I really wanted and I've been hanging out around here for almost 13 years and have seen basically the glory days of this process grow from a once in a while thing to a near constant onslaught of knife variations.

This used to be the case for me, and I was based in dark Africa, and the last few years Australia. I could get most of the sprints I wanted up to about 2 or 3 years ago. Not anymore. Since about 2020 the feeding frenzies have been exceptionally fierce and frustrating, and the odds are heavily and increasingly stacked against anyone not based in the USA.

To add insult to injury, many of the large retailers have stopped shipping internationally, probably a lingering symptom of the pandemic. This reduces our options to a handful of large retailers. These are the guys who typically sell out in minutes, at random times in the middle of the night.

I've basically given up on the most desirable sprints and exclusives based on these factors. I've been looking more at other brands as a result. It is telling that I could snag a severely limited Large Sebenza in Magnacut recently without too much difficulty, but not any of the 15V sprints over the last few months. And not for a lack of trying.

Aftermarket is always an option if you have deep pockets, but that is outside this debate.

It is what it is. I don't know if there is a solution, or even if there is a desire for the powers that be to change anything. The model works for the big US market. Demand is at an all-time high. Why change anything from a business perspective to accomodate the consumers on the fringes when you cannot keep up with demand as it is?

[Bolster]

Interesting timing ^ March 3rd, while the M4 LW Manix exclusive has been in stock all day at Blade HQ for a lower-than-BD1N price. Just saying, it's a bad day to complain.

[RustyIron]

Internal marketing and sales associates not knowing what will be sent when, and where, to who. Employees not knowing when drops or shipments will occur. Nobody seems to know what is going on. Internally or externally.

I think that's a pretty wild assumption on your part. Or maybe I'm wrong. I thought I was wrong once, but upon reexamination, it turns out I was mistaken. So take it for what it's worth.

Nevertheless, I'd bet big money that the employees at Spyderco have a pretty exacting idea about production and shipping schedules. And there's no reason to think that their customers wouldn't have a general idea regarding product availability. Successful businesses are not run all willy-nilly, nor do they blab about all their strategies.

I think there is a far greater probability that the retailers purposely don't tell us when a product will become available. They WANT you to keep coming back to their web pages, checking several times a day. Every time you click their web page, seeds of brand recognition are planted in your brain. And each time you look for the sprint model, there's a chance that you'll see another knife that will strike your fancy. Frankly, this whole "sprint thing" is marketing genius. At virtually no cost, retailers get web traffic that can't be obtained by traditional advertising campaigns.

Don't expect things to change any time soon.