Spyderco Forums

Out of every blade-lock ever used on all known Spyderco folders, which one is truly the strongest and closest to transforming the opened knife into a fixed blade knife as far as safety goes?

I have heard it would be the Puzzle Lock by Mr. Bram Frank. Bram is, as many of you may know, the designer of the Spyderco Gunting Folder, which can be seen here: https://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details/C68G/25 and he went on to produce many great knives as can be seen here:

https://www.cssd-sc.com/

Allegedly the steel dove-tail device on the Puzzle Lock locks it in place and makes it as tough as a fixed blade, though that is a big claim because a fixed blade is still fixed.

You opened up a can of worms with this one.

Interestingly enough, Bram Frank’s Gunting was the model that Sal designed the compression lock for and as a result as the first model to ever use a compression lock.

I would guess Spydercos strongest lock could be their “Power Lock” seen used on the Tatanka and Chinook 4.

Every time this comes up, the general answer is that you can engineer any lock to be as strong as you want it.

It doesnt really matter, all locks should be stronger than the breaking strength of the blade/steel.

The Original Manix and Chinook broke spyderco's locktesting machine so i think the OG Backlocks count as one of the strongest locks Spyderco ever made.

But i think its difficult to point out the 1 winner.

I would have guessed the Stop Lock from the Parata?

I'm betting any lock Spyderco makes can be made stronger than the pivot and stop screws and they would be the failure point before the lock failed, and/or the blade itself breaks first. Over the years I've seen several broken blades but I don't recall many broken locks.

If you’re doing anything that requires you to think of blade lock strength…a fixed blade is the answer.

Bram takes credit for the comp lock and it’s copy the puzzle lock?

For liner/frame locks, the force applied to the lock is at an angle and the contact surface is relatively small, so the lock may be able to slip open. I'm actually able to make the lock bar on my Buck 417 wiggle slightly if I apply back pressure. If the lock is well designed, failure will require a huge amount of force.

For comp, back or CBBL/axis, you're probably going to get a structural failure of the knife before the lock itself fails. With back and CBBL/axis locks, the force of closing the blade is perpendicular to the direction of force needed to unlock the lock. With comp locks, there's a steep ramp on the locking surface, but there's so much locking surface that it's not going to slip before something else breaks.

The only locks where I've heard of failures were liner/frame locks. That seems to be mostly down to defective or poorly designed knives. I've never heard of a military, techno, etc. failing. A more realistic risk is accidentally unlocking the knife or failing to engage the lock when opening it. I like when folders have some sort of choil/ricasso/tab there to stop the blade closing on my fingers.

Evil D wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 10, 2022 7:24 am

I'm betting any lock Spyderco makes can be made stronger than the pivot and stop screws and they would be the failure point before the lock failed, and/or the blade itself breaks first. Over the years I've seen several broken blades but I don't recall many broken locks.

I agree with this. There is quite a lot of focus on the lock... but the stop pin and associated screws probably see more force in normal use. It would be nice to see a test of the strength of those stop pins instead of locks.

As such, I feel like the backstop of the Manix is probably incredibly strong since it is a slab of steel and multiple screws.

Tatanka with PowerLock

Smallfly. A balisong is, for all intents and purposes, a fixed blade when open.

JRinFL wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:59 am

Bram takes credit for the comp lock and it’s copy the puzzle lock?

Hi Jim,

Bram Frank had nothing to do with the compression lock invention. I invented the lock. Confirmed the concept with Frank Centofante and Vince Ford. Vince made the early prototypes. Bram never even heard of the lock until we showed him a prototype.

Bram's "Puzzle Lock" was a lame attempt at knocking off the Compression lock, but to my knowledge, the lock never worked and no one successfully made one.

sal

Thank you for the clarification SAL. Do you know the MBC rating of say the lil temperance 3 LW? Was it ever tested. I see it has a bigger locking bar as say the PM2.

sal wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:59 pm

JRinFL wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:59 am

Bram takes credit for the comp lock and it’s copy the puzzle lock?

Hi Jim,

Bram Frank had nothing to do with the compression lock invention. I invented the lock. Confirmed the concept with Frank Centofante and Vince Ford. Vince made the early prototypes. Bram never even heard of the lock until we showed him a prototype.

Bram's "Puzzle Lock" was a lame attempt at knocking off the Compression lock, but to my knowledge, the lock never worked and no one successfully made one.

sal

And a wonderful invention it is too.
I’ve had 3 iterations of it and liked them all.

sal wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 10, 2022 4:59 pm

JRinFL wrote: ↑

Sat Dec 10, 2022 8:59 am

Bram takes credit for the comp lock and it’s copy the puzzle lock?

Hi Jim,

Bram Frank had nothing to do with the compression lock invention. I invented the lock. Confirmed the concept with Frank Centofante and Vince Ford. Vince made the early prototypes. Bram never even heard of the lock until we showed him a prototype.

Bram's "Puzzle Lock" was a lame attempt at knocking off the Compression lock, but to my knowledge, the lock never worked and no one successfully made one.

sal

Thanks Sal. I was pretty confident that it was all your design and was surprised someone else would attempt to claim otherwise.

The far more likely event is debris, fail to open all the way or, disengaging the lock do to hand positioning.....

The question is what happens then? I choose folders with built in hand protection.

I looked up puzzle lock and I think I found something completely different.
https://s3.amazonaws.com/images.gearjun ... -Knife.jpg

I was actually thinking about almost this exact idea a couple months ago. I thought having the blade held into the locking recess with a spring would lead to blade play and maybe the lock failing. It's cool to see someone attempting this.

This subject on lock mechanisms comes up from time to time. And it's a most interesting subject to look at. I do have a couple of locking mechanisms that I guess you could say are my favorites. I like the compression lock and the ball bearing lock. But more for novelty reasons rather than performance. But even with that said there isn't even one of Spyderco's locking systems that I've ever had to fail on me in all the years I've been using Spyderco folders. And I've put a couple of my main EDC folders through some very brutal conditions at times over the years.

As far as these tests of whacking them in the opposite direction to see when they finally will fail to me is utter non sense. Because I would never subject any of my folders to that type of abuse. Even Spyderco's liner locks and lockbacks which are both considered the bottom grade of all the locks available. I've never had even one failure ever.

Now if I ever need a knife to endure that type of punishment ( which I doubt if I ever will) >> then I would simply opt for a fixed blade. Because a fixed blade is probably the only fool proof EDC blade you can get. So for me it's "Case Closed"