Edge Pro Apex-Help!

[Foehammer]

Hi all. Got an Edge pro as an upgrade over my trusty old Sharpmaker. I was hoping to get a hair-popping edge, but after running an s30v blade over all the grits, and the polish tapes, it doesn't really seem that sharper than it was. I know it's user error, but I can't seem to find what I'm doing wrong. I went right away to about 18 dps, maybe that is what I'm doing wrong. I'm pretty inexperienced when it comes to sharpening, but I was always able to get a really nice edge on the Sharpmaker, and I was hoping to get a better edge on the Edge pro. Any tips would be greatly appreciated!

[Giygas]

What was your grit progression? Were you using the included stones?

Can you post a picture of your edge?

[TkoK83Spy]

Light pressure is key, Sharpie marker and loupe will also help. Are you cleaning the apex through each progression? Should be able to scrap shave arm hair at a minimum before progressing to the next grit.

Yes, pictures would definitely help as well.

[Foehammer]

What was your grit progression? Were you using the included stones?

Can you post a picture of your edge?

Hi! Yes, using the included stones. Went from 400, to 600, to 1000. Hope the pictures are adequate.

[JSumm]

What degree slots were you using on the Sharpmaker before? The first culprit almost always seems to be not hitting the apex. May just need longer to get there depending on the current angle of the edge. Rick is correct. Sharpie and a loupe will aid in determining if you are hitting it.

[Foehammer]

What degree slots were you using on the Sharpmaker before? The first culprit almost always seems to be not hitting the apex. May just need longer to get there depending on the current angle of the edge. Rick is correct. Sharpie and a loupe will aid in determining if you are hitting it.

Yes, I used a sharpie and adjusted the angle until it was getting completely removed by a pass on the stones. Ended up being about 19.5 ish to get it to that point. Was using the 40 degrees slots on the Sharpamker.

[RustyIron]

Hey, Foe.
The key is going to be learning what is actually going on at the edge. You can't just scrub scrub scrub with one stone, then go to the next. The use of each stone in needs to be deliberate and precise. Luckily, it's not to difficult to get good results quickly.

First thing, paint the edge with a Sharpie pen. This is only a crude, starter move and doesn't work well for advanced work. Take one very light pass with the stone along the edge, and see where the ink is worn off. From there, you can see whether you need less angle, more angle, or that you need to remove more material to get whatever arbitrary angle you chose.

Second, a magnifier of some sort is VERY important. When your edge is not sharp when you think it should be sharp, seeing the edge will tell you why. I like an Optivisor 4x for nearly everything, but something in the 10x realm might be better.

When working with a new blade where you want to establish good angles, when working with a dull blade, or working on an edge that has you confused, start with a coarse grit stone. Work on both sides, maintaining equal sized bevels, and keep going until you have a good apex. You can use the magnifier to confirm, or you can feel a burr on either side as you go back and forth. Then go lighter and lighter with your pressure, trying to sharpen out the burr completely. Make the edge as sharp as possible with the stone you're using. Only then can you go to the next finer stone.

Do it all over again with the next finer stone. Use your magnifier to LOOK at the edge. You want to see the coarse scratches being polished out and replaced with smaller scratches. Then hit it with lighter and lighter passes, reducing the burr, and getting the blade as sharp as possible. Then move to a finer stone.

My point is that you can never move to a finer stone before the blade is as sharp as possible with the stone you're using. Don't move on and try to fix problems with a finer stone. Fix the problems NOW with the stone you're using.

[TkoK83Spy]

Looks like you can see the burr reflecting in that second photo.

[Foehammer]

Hey, Foe.
The key is going to be learning what is actually going on at the edge. You can't just scrub scrub scrub with one stone, then go to the next. The use of each stone in needs to be deliberate and precise. Luckily, it's not to difficult to get good results quickly.

First thing, paint the edge with a Sharpie pen. This is only a crude, starter move and doesn't work well for advanced work. Take one very light pass with the stone along the edge, and see where the ink is worn off. From there, you can see whether you need less angle, more angle, or that you need to remove more material to get whatever arbitrary angle you chose.

Second, a magnifier of some sort is VERY important. When your edge is not sharp when you think it should be sharp, seeing the edge will tell you why. I like an Optivisor 4x for nearly everything, but something in the 10x realm might be better.

When working with a new blade where you want to establish good angles, when working with a dull blade, or working on an edge that has you confused, start with a coarse grit stone. Work on both sides, maintaining equal sized bevels, and keep going until you have a good apex. You can use the magnifier to confirm, or you can feel a burr on either side as you go back and forth. Then go lighter and lighter with your pressure, trying to sharpen out the burr completely. Make the edge as sharp as possible with the stone you're using. Only then can you go to the next finer stone.

Do it all over again with the next finer stone. Use your magnifier to LOOK at the edge. You want to see the coarse scratches being polished out and replaced with smaller scratches. Then hit it with lighter and lighter passes, reducing the burr, and getting the blade as sharp as possible. Then move to a finer stone.

My point is that you can never move to a finer stone before the blade is as sharp as possible with the stone you're using. Don't move on and try to fix problems with a finer stone. Fix the problems NOW with the stone you're using.

Thanks Rusty! I don't have a magnifier, guess it's something i should be looking at buying. Not quite sure how to 'feel' a bevel, I can manage it with coarser grits but as soon as I hit around 600 I lose track of where the burr is. I think I am being impatient, and just need to relax and take it slow and steady.

[Giygas]

Thanks for posting pics.

You should definitely get a loupe. It's one of the most important sharpening tools.

Some great advice here, already. I just want to add; are you checking with your fingernail to see if you're forming a burr before switching sides/progressing to the next stone? It may look like the sharpie is completely gone, but for a number of reasons there still may not be a burr. That's something a loupe is vital for.

How is it at slicing paper... Copy paper? reciept paper?

[Foehammer]

Thanks for posting pics.

You should definitely get a loupe. It's one of the most important sharpening tools.

Some great advice here, already. I just want to add; are you checking with your fingernail to see if you're forming a burr before switching sides/progressing to the next stone? It may look like the sharpie is completely gone, but for a number of reasons there still may not be a burr. That's something a loupe is vital for.

How is it at slicing paper... Copy paper? reciept paper?

The worst part is that it seems duller than when I started. It can slice copy paper, but it's not an even edge I can tell. Really frustrating, I think I need to hold off for now before I ruin my edges. I'll order a loupe, and try to see where I'm at then. I don't even really know what to feel for when checking for a burr.

[Giygas]

Thanks for posting pics.

You should definitely get a loupe. It's one of the most important sharpening tools.

Some great advice here, already. I just want to add; are you checking with your fingernail to see if you're forming a burr before switching sides/progressing to the next stone? It may look like the sharpie is completely gone, but for a number of reasons there still may not be a burr. That's something a loupe is vital for.

How is it at slicing paper... Copy paper? reciept paper?

The worst part is that it seems duller than when I started. It can slice copy paper, but it's not an even edge I can tell. Really frustrating, I think I need to hold off for now before I ruin my edges. I'll order a loupe, and try to see where I'm at then. I don't even really know what to feel for when checking for a burr.

Run your fingernail downward, from the "shoulder" of the edge to the apex. If there's a burr, it'll catch your fingernail. It'll feel like the seam that you often find on injection molded plastic.

I suspect when you look at it with a bit of magnification, you'll see the issue immediately.

[JSumm]

I would be willing to bet you are not at the Apex yet.

I will be honest. When sharpening a blade for the first time or reprofiling, I will start with a sharpie to get a sense for the angle, but I rely more on the loupe to see how close I am getting to the apex. You can start to see the different grind marks. As you get close, start checking for the burr. And just like Rusty said, start using less pressure. Now I do this by hand because I feel it is a little faster to reprofile and touchup, but I think the same concept applies.

[Foehammer]

Very good advice, thank you everyone!

[cabfrank]

Great thread. This forum has some wonderful members that are always willing to help.

[RustyIron]

I don't have a magnifier, guess it's something i should be looking at buying. Not quite sure how to 'feel' a bevel,

All these observations are just clues. Even if you have a lot of clues, you still need to interpret them. The picture you posted contains clues, too. Admittedly, it's hard to take pictures if knives because there are often strange reflections, lighting problems, etc. So you'll have to look at the knife to be sure of what I think I see.

The EdgePro gives you a flat bevel. If you have a teeny tiny straight edge, you should be able to lay it across that bevel and it should look flat. Take a look at the picture below. The parts that I encircled show dark shadows and light reflections. That seems to indicate multiple angles. Maybe it's just the lighting, or maybe it's a real problem at the edge. You'll have to look closer to know for sure. At least it's a clue.

[Foehammer]

I don't have a magnifier, guess it's something i should be looking at buying. Not quite sure how to 'feel' a bevel,

All these observations are just clues. Even if you have a lot of clues, you still need to interpret them. The picture you posted contains clues, too. Admittedly, it's hard to take pictures if knives because there are often strange reflections, lighting problems, etc. So you'll have to look at the knife to be sure of what I think I see.

The EdgePro gives you a flat bevel. If you have a teeny tiny straight edge, you should be able to lay it across that bevel and it should look flat. Take a look at the picture below. The parts that I encircled show dark shadows and light reflections. That seems to indicate multiple angles. Maybe it's just the lighting, or maybe it's a real problem at the edge. You'll have to look closer to know for sure. At least it's a clue.


IMG-4782.jpg

I took another stab at it after a break to clear my head. Started with 120 and worked it until I had a burr on one side, than I tried to remove the burr on the other side, using a piece of paper as a sharpness guide. After it was sharp I moved on up the grits. Edge is a lot better and more consistent now. It's fairly sharp now, and much better than it was. Using patience and trying to go through each step with precision helps a lot. When my loupe comes in I will work on another knife to practice and actually see what is going on with the edge as I sharpen. Thanks again for all the excellent advice from you fine folks!

[Foehammer]

Light pressure is key, Sharpie marker and loupe will also help. Are you cleaning the apex through each progression? Should be able to scrap shave arm hair at a minimum before progressing to the next grit.

Yes, pictures would definitely help as well.

I’m not quite sure what you mean by ‘cleaning the apex.’

[TkoK83Spy]

Light pressure is key, Sharpie marker and loupe will also help. Are you cleaning the apex through each progression? Should be able to scrap shave arm hair at a minimum before progressing to the next grit.

Yes, pictures would definitely help as well.

I’m not quite sure what you mean by ‘cleaning the apex.’

Meaning deburring, cleaning it up before moving to the next grit progression.

[Coastal]

By the way, there is no need to buy a loupe if your phone has a decent camera.