Seki City back lock quality in 2022?

[Michal O]

Tomorrow maybe I'll be able to find old picture of my Endura, to show what I'm writing.

[Xformer]

Hi Michael O,

The Triad lock is proprietary to Cold Steel.

We've been making The Endura in Seki since 1990 with the same maker. We have literally millions of them in the field. They have a very good reputation and we've been refining them for over 30 years. They are currently in their 4th iteration.

sal

Millions for the Endura ?! Well, congratulations. I didn't know sales numbers of folders could reach that high, outside of very popular models. I can imagine the Delica or the PM2 are much higher.

I know Spyderco doesn't disclose their sales numbers, but it would be cool to have some milestones. Like the 20 000 000th PM2 shipped, maybe even with a sprint run.

[Evil D]

I can imagine the or the Delica or the PM2 are much higher.

Delica maybe but not Para 2, the Endura has about a 20 year headstart in sales. It would be cool to know some numbers.

[sal]

Tomorrow maybe I'll be able to find old picture of my Endura, to show what I'm writing.

Hi Michal O,

I don't think a picture of your old Endura would be relevant to what we're making now. we've made many changes to our Endura model over the years. However, if you prefer Cold Steel's lock-backs, that OK. Lynn Thompson always made good quality knives. Lynn and I go back a long way. I don't understand the point of your conversation?

We continue to improve our locks (all types) and our designs regularly. We make new tooling, make improved molds, change materials and add many new models. We make test models of different steels for our customers to do their own research. This is something I don't see other knife companies doing like we do. We have our own factory in the USA and we work with high quality makers in; Japan, Italy, Taiwan and China. The same ones for decades. We have our own testing lab and we're constantly testing.

Our CQI ( Constant Quality Improvement), new designs, and engaging, like I am doing with you right now, is something our customers enjoy and appreciate. Our knives are carried by Military, Law Enforcement, Fire Fighters, First Responders and any group that needs and depends on reliable High Performance.

Each knife company has it's own niche and it's own market. If you are in Cold Steels camp or market, perhaps you will be happier sticking with them? In my opinion, the Triad lock, like any lock also has issues.

But thanx for offering your opinion, which we always appreciate.

sal

[Michal O]

Here it is. I was talking about how deep that ''hook'' goes into tang of the blade comparised for example to Chapparal disassembled by Nick Shabazz. If these days this lock look different, and is deeper, it's great.

[Doc Dan]

I think the OP needs to look at lock strength videos and see how Spydercos weak back locks with lock rock fare against other well known locks. Here's two:

https://youtu.be/4KmHfbG7z7g
https://youtu.be/ERxHUXAFVs4

[VooDooChild]

Here it is. I was talking about how deep that ''hook'' goes into tang of the blade comparised for example to Chapparal disassembled by Nick Shabazz. If these days this lock look different, and is deeper, it's great.

I see what youre saying, yeah the actual hook engagement is very small. I have no idea if new ones are deeper, but since its still the same design I would think they are probably close to what you have.

With that said, if it doesnt slip, in which case its a faulty lock, that small engagement shouldnt matter. Assuming the blade doesnt break first, then the knife would still have to strip a pin or blow out the handle to fail.

But if the shallow engagement bothers you then go for a different backlock design.

I really think you should try one of spydercos US made backlocks. They are really good.

[Michal O]

I'm considering Native Chief.

[Soanso McMasters]

I’ve bought 8 Seki City models in the past 8 months and all are rock solid. Not sure if that helps or not.

[Michal O]

Every opinion helps. I know that I may be spoiled by triadlock and biased, because my experiences with Japanese bl in the past.

I must try first some Spyderco with bl made in USA or Taiwan.

PS Despite my affection to triadlock, for now I carry much more often Spyderco - Smock, P3 and Sliverax are essentials in my rotation.

[Matus]

Just a side note - the Triad-Lock patent will expire in August 2026 (unless CS will decide it is not worth paying the fees as these grow over time). So who knows, maybe we will see it eventually in a Spyderco. But for what it is worth - I have a customized CS Lawman and it is hard to unlock eben though the spring is not strong. I think it has to do with inherent design properties of the lock (requires a lot of travel to unlock what is achieved at the expense of the length of the level arm). Oh, and it has a lock rock too ... though that is possibly the result of the customization done by the previous owner.

[Wartstein]

Just a side note - the Triad-Lock patent will expire in August 2026 (unless CS will decide it is not worth paying the fees as these grow over time). So who knows, maybe we will see it eventually in a Spyderco. But for what it is worth - I have a customized CS Lawman and it is hard to unlock eben though the spring is not strong. I think it has to do with inherent design properties of the lock (requires a lot of travel to unlock what is achieved at the expense of the length of the level arm). Oh, and it has a lock rock too ... though that is possibly the result of the customization done by the previous owner.

I am perfectly happy with Spydercos backlocks - Seki or not.

/ That being said: Spyderco also has their Power lock - so far only used in the Tatanka and Chinook, as far as I know... but perhaps someday also in a "Lil Tatanka"? (see here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91905#p1605159)

[Matus]

... but perhaps someday also in a "Lil Tatanka"? (see here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=91905#p1605159)

Curios how that will turn out ... in my head it looks like a hypothetical slim conversion of the Stretch.

[Evil D]

The lock engagement thing is something you'd never know about and never even consider without seeing a video or taking it apart yourself, and you'd never have a problem with it unless you like spine whacking which just seems asinine to me unless you're actually testing a new design or something, it's just never something that will need to be done in real world use.

Lock rock is a different story, or maybe it's related? I don't like it but it does seem like most have a small amount. I've also seen that some will wear in and it goes away once the lock bar wears into the tang better. My Rock Jumper has a good amount of up and down wiggle but it's still plenty functional. Some models seem to deal with this better than others, the Native 5 for whatever reason seems far less likely to have it. I've never had a Chaparral but with it also having an internal stop pin I would assume they lock up like a bank vault.

[Ramonade]

My first backlocks from Spyderco were Natives 5 and the Chaparral.
My first Seki backlock experience was a bit unsettling 'cause I didn't know how much work a design needs to implement any lock. All backlocks are different, even inside a same brand.
The little lock rock my Seki do have did perturb me in the beginning since I only had N5 and Chap' for reference but I now use them with full confidence in the locking system and don't think it'll disappoint me any day.

[cabfrank]

@VooDooChild, thanks for your answer, it makes good sense. Most of my knives are backlocks, and I like them very much. I will certainly get more. It was just a curiosity thing.

[Jason Paul]

Oddly enough, I actually just checked all of my Spyderco backlocks for vertical play a few days ago. All of them had a little bit, in varying degrees. In a few it was barely noticeable, and in one or two it was more obvious, but not terrible.

Generally I'm the type to obsess and worry about things like that, but I keep seeing comments that it's normal and no big deal.

So, what's the worst that can happen from lock rock? Could it eventually lead to failure? What would that look like?

[vivi]

Every Spyderco lockback I've owned has had some degree of vertical play. I've owned examples from the 90's up to made within the past few months. Models from Japan, China, USA etc.

I've never had any Spyderco lockback fail during use.

[sal]

Hi Michal O,

Frankly, I wasn't that impressed with the Triad lock. It was solid and strong, but it did have other issues that I wouldn't want to deal with. Now Andrew's newer locks are quite nice and we're dancing around possible collaboration with him, but he's pretty busy doing his own thing, so we'll see,

Also, Kaizen in Japan, or our CQI is always going on. The new Production Stretch 2 XL that I just received has no play and the lock head is far deeper into the tang well than the sample you have.

sal

[Diamondback]

I own a generation 1, G-2 Endura and many Seki made Spyderco lockback folders made throughout the years. It's my opinion that the current Spyderco coming out of Seki are the finest made. That isn't to say previous iterations are sub-par...just that Seki made Spyderco knives keep getting better!