A Spyderco piercing knife…?

[Abyss_Fish]

It’s come to my attention that this would be somewhat illegal to have or use. So it’s fair to say this whole idea is a wash, thanks for the feedback!



I saw this photo on Serge Panchenko’s insta story just now:

and it got me thinking about some things…



I’m generally against using knives for self defense, just a touch too much personal risk for my liking. But I’ve been hiking more often recently, and I’m starting to see the merit in having something on me for emergencies. In comes the…

Personal Protection Pocket Poker!
(or quadruple p for short)

Note: this isn’t an exact representation, especially since the width isn’t to scale. But the idea is there. Also I’ve forgotten to draw handle screws…


There is a need (or at least I have a need) for something light, and stabby. And Spyderco is the only company I trust with a blade this delicate. The idea would be a 4.00” long blade, false edge on the spine, slight upsweep to support a little slashing, and as narrow as is possible. 0.25”? 0.33”? I don’t know how thin is reasonable for ongoing use. But to support that thinness would be something equally strong, my first choice is 3v. As it’s near indestructible. But cru-wear is a favorite around here and I’m sure it’d be more than good enough. Simple crossbar finger guard made of a separate piece of steel to allow for a full tang, connected to a mostly neutral handle with a coffin-esque swell at the base to keep your hand in place. The scales should be removable for maintenance, and probably just in lightly textured and beveled g10 (I’d prefer frn but I know it’s expensive to start up, maybe later.) Slap a bolteron sheath on this bad boy and you’ve got a serious tool. It is specialized, but that’s not a bad thing. You’d be hard pressed to find something better for quickly getting rid of your coyote, hawk, bear or nutjob problem while out in the woods.

Now, a few points before someone else mentions them. I’ll add to this if someone points out something I didn’t mention.

• Yes the nightstick exists, but it’s fairly chunky, expensive (at least for it’s materials and theoretical use), and not really built for ahem real world use.

• Yeah it would definitely be hard to fit a spydie hole on that blade, but it’s the least of my worries with this design. It can go on the cross guard, or the top of the handle, or something.

• No it’s not one of those Japanese concealed dagger-y things, think of it as a modern stiletto. In an ideal situation this thing isn’t even really made to be concealed, it should just be easily accessible.

• ADDITION: This is primarily as a last line of defense against animal attacks, something you can access quickly to get a predator off of you. Knife fighting or anything like that was not really what I was going for.

Thanks for looking! No particular hopes for this one, just looking for feedback.

[Abyss_Fish]

Edit: Accidental reply, whoops.

[Mushroom]

The Nightstick is actually surprisingly thin and a very sleek design. It really seems like it could be a good alternative to what you're looking for. I know someone that has put a real edge on the false edge of the Nightstick and made it plenty capable for real world use.

The knife you're requesting sounds like it might be priced in a range similar to the Nightstick. It might worth giving it a second look because there is no knowing how much your proposed Personal Protection Pocket Poker would potentially be priced at for production purposes. :D

[Abyss_Fish]

The Nightstick is actually surprisingly thin and a very sleek design. It really seems like it could be a good alternative to what you're looking for. I know someone that has put a real edge on the false edge of the Nightstick and made it plenty capable for real world use.

The knife you're requesting sounds like it might be priced in a range similar to the Nightstick. It might worth giving it a second look because there is no knowing how much your proposed Personal Protection Pocket Poker would potentially be priced at for production purposes. :D

I’d rather pay 250+ for something that does exactly what I need it to exceptionally than 210 for something that does a few things okay.


Also s30v. Ew.

:p

[Mushroom]

Why wouldn't you like S30V if you're only planning to eventually maybe stab a would be attacker in the woods?

Personally, I know of something that would work better for quickly getting rid of your coyote, hawk, bear or nutjob problem while out in the woods, and it's not a knife.

I still think the Nightstick is a great option. It's similar to the "PP PP" in a number of ways - It's a 4.14" blade, has a false edge, a slightly upswept edge, it's .1" (2.5mm) thick, and comes with a Boltaron sheath. The guard is integrated into the handle but it still has one. The scales aren't removable but maintenance is easier that way. The scales aren't textured but they are beveled and are a neutral shape. I think the Nightstick could come close to doing what you want exceptionally.

[aaronkb]

Longtime martial artist here. Going to speak solely about defense against a human attacker as that’s what I know something about.

From a justifiable and effective self-defense perspective, your priority is to stop the attack as quickly as possible. If that’s the goal, slashing (which is likely to cut across and disrupt the function of muscles/tendons) is arguable a lot better than stabbing (which might cause death but isn’t as likely to immediately stop your attacker).

But most importantly, do you have any training in armed or unarmed self defense? If you’re not trained in the use of a knife, you shouldn’t in a million years consider it an effective tool for you. You’re just as likely to get killed while struggling to get the weapon into the fight, and even then you won’t be particularly effective with it. First thing’s first, get some quality training.

[Abyss_Fish]

But most importantly, do you have any training in armed or unarmed self defense? If you’re not trained in the use of a knife, you shouldn’t in a million years consider it an effective tool for you. You’re just as likely to get killed while struggling to get the weapon into the fight, and even then you won’t be particularly effective with it. First thing’s first, get some quality training.

This is the main reason I don’t usually consider my knives self defense tools. This knife concept is more for defending against animal attacks, the thought being that slashing is harder when something is on top of you.

I’ll add that note to the post.

[Abyss_Fish]

another goof reply, whoops.

[Abyss_Fish]

Why wouldn't you like S30V if you're only planning to eventually maybe stab a would be attacker in the woods?

I don’t totally trust s30v not to shatter in a blade that thin. And jeez you don’t have to put it that way, it would mostly be to protect against animal attacks on longer treks.

[VooDooChild]

Also did martial arts and self defense and whatever.
Obligatory, a knife is one of the worst options vs nothing at all.

I personally think theres a lot of merits in stabbing vs slashing but...

As far as the "knife" goes.
Maybe just get a cheap ice pick, or an old bayonet.

[Mushroom]

The piercing knife is an certainly interesting concept. It's a niche blade like you said but I would expect it could still be used in a variety of utility roles.

[Evil D]

The downside of a spike style blade is how small the holes are that it makes. For example a Phil Wilson is going to stab and make holes just as easily as a spike but the edge will cut and open a larger wound on entry, and if you're trying to hurt something you want a bigger hole. This is the idea behind the tip/spine shape of the Yojimbo, that triangle shape of the spine pushes the edge into a slicing motion and will open up a good sized wound on one single thrust. Of course I'm not saying a dog or whatever will just shrug off a stab from a narrow spike, just saying you could get by just fine with a more standard knife and also gain a usable tool that you could also maybe deny your way out of in a bad situation with the police should the need arise.

What's more important than the blade shape is how you carry it and how well you'll be able to deploy it when the time comes. I actually looked into a similar idea as this from a couple other brands because I wanted something easy to conceal but also quick and easy to draw. I've been charged by a couple pitt bulls at work and we've had one guy almost lose his right hand to a dog attack so this is a very real world possibility for me, less so with people (I hope) but dogs are always a concern. Right now I'm carrying a Jumpmaster 2 and the carry method I've worked out is a little weird at first but drawing it has become second nature. If this is really something you're concerned with I'd look into it regardless of how this thread request goes.

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[Naperville]

I own a few "knives" or pointy things that look like Serge Panchenko’s knife...not exactly but close. You are looking for a Rondel Dagger. A blade of 4 inches for this is way too short for my tastes. In order to do any good it would have to have approximately 6 to 7 inches of blade because the targets you are looking to hit are 7 inches deep. No use in designing something that cannot fulfill it's mission.

Let's look at what Spyderco already has:

- Spyderco Fish Hunter: Blade Length: 4.39", Overall Length: 8.94", Cutting Edge: 3.96", Blade Thickness: 0.118", Blade Material: H1

It's a pretty nice blade profile for what you are looking at accomplishing. If it were Blade Length: 6", Overall Length: 10.5", Cutting Edge: ~5.5", Blade Thickness: 0.2", Blade Material: 20CV you might have something I'd buy.

- Spyderco Gayle Bradley Nightstick: Blade Length: 4.14", Cutting Edge: 3.75", Overall Length: 8.37", Blade Material: CPM-S30V Stainless Steel, Blade Thickness: 0.10", Blade Style: Dagger, Blade Grind: Flat.

This is a pretty nice blade profile for what you are looking at accomplishing too. If it were Blade Length: 6", Cutting Edge: ~5.5", Overall Length: 10", Blade Material: CPM-S30V Stainless Steel, Blade Thickness: 0.15", Blade Style: Dagger, Blade Grind: Flat that would be cool. I'd need one of these too!

- Spyderco Stuart Ackerman Sustain: Blade Length: 6.19", Cutting Edge: 6", Overall Length: 11.5", Blade Thickness: 0.118", Blade Material: CPM 20CV, Blade Grind: Saber, Blade Edge: Plain. THIS IS THE KNIFE THAT YOU WANT!!! I have one and need a backup.

Looking at other manufacturers there is the Cold Steel Rondel Dagger. Blade Length: 11.5", Overall Length: 16.5", Blade Material: 1065 Carbon Steel, Blade Thickness: 0.625", Handle Material: Rosewood. It is awesome, and I don't own one yet. It is on my to buy list, but it might be too long for carrying anywhere. If it had a Blade Length: 7.5", Overall Length: 12.5", Blade Material: 3V, Blade Thickness: 0.5", Handle Material: G-10 I'd buy one!!!




Other knives to look at for design inspiration:

- KA-BAR John Ek Commando Ek Model 4 Fixed 6.45" Double Edge 1095 Dagger
- Cold Steel Drop Forged Wasp Double-Edged Dagger Fixed Blade Knife 6.75" Blade
- Spartan Blades Spartan-George V14 Combat Dagger 6.75" S35VN Double Edge Blade

[standy99]

Having one knife for stabbing and another for cutting.

If my cutty can also stabby I’m only carrying one

[Sumdumguy]

It's not a Spyderco. But, it's pokey, slashy and small(kinda).

For when the fools need cuttin'... :D :p

[Doc Dan]

Spyderco stobbin' knife.

[James Y]

The downside of a spike style blade is how small the holes are that it makes. For example a Phil Wilson is going to stab and make holes just as easily as a spike but the edge will cut and open a larger wound on entry, and if you're trying to hurt something you want a bigger hole. This is the idea behind the tip/spine shape of the Yojimbo, that triangle shape of the spine pushes the edge into a slicing motion and will open up a good sized wound on one single thrust. Of course I'm not saying a dog or whatever will just shrug off a stab from a narrow spike, just saying you could get by just fine with a more standard knife and also gain a usable tool that you could also maybe deny your way out of in a bad situation with the police should the need arise.

What's more important than the blade shape is how you carry it and how well you'll be able to deploy it when the time comes. I actually looked into a similar idea as this from a couple other brands because I wanted something easy to conceal but also quick and easy to draw. I've been charged by a couple pitt bulls at work and we've had one guy almost lose his right hand to a dog attack so this is a very real world possibility for me, less so with people (I hope) but dogs are always a concern. Right now I'm carrying a Jumpmaster 2 and the carry method I've worked out is a little weird at first but drawing it has become second nature. If this is really something you're concerned with I'd look into it regardless of how this thread request goes.

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Great points!

I don’t personally carry a knife for the express purpose of self-defense, but if the unfortunate situation came up where using one in that manner became necessary, I’d rather it NOT be too narrow and only “stabby”. I’d rather it also have some width and good cutting ability. That way, it could stab in, and then you can make a bigger cut as it’s withdrawn, the same concept behind Michael Janich’s ‘comma cut’. Although I am NOT a knife fighter, I think it stands to reason that depth being equal, the larger the wound, the more debilitating it is. There are countless instances of attackers (humans and dogs) who have been repeatedly stabbed in SD and had holes put into them, which failed to incapacitate them, at least not quickly. They may not even feel it at all, due to adrenaline or other factors. Even someone or something that is mortally wounded (by knife or gunshot) can often continue to pursue, attack, or fight, for a good while, long enough to inflict a lot of damage, if they can get to you.

Jim

[Evil D]

There are countless instances of attackers (humans and dogs) who have been repeatedly stabbed in SD and had holes put into them, which failed to incapacitate them, at least not quickly.

Jim

Absolutely true, even with guns. We had a dog when I was a kid, German Shepherd and Chow mix, he was shot twice with what we thought looked like a 30-06 bullet judging by the size and shape, one in his neck and one in his back as he ran away. He walked home from who knows how far and we found him chillin on the porch in a pool of blood but far from dying. I would say a spike shaped tool really needs to hit something vital to be instantly effective.

[JRinFL]

Dirks and daggers are banned by name and description just about anywhere in the US, with few exceptions. You probably don't want to be caught carrying one or using one after an incident. They also have a very long history of being an effective weapon.

[Abyss_Fish]

Dirks and daggers are banned by name and description just about anywhere in the US, with few exceptions.

I actually didn’t know that. That seems like a good enough reason to give up on the idea tbh.