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Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:25 am
by JD Spydo
This might be a question for Larrin and I do hope he chimes in at some point. But I've been talking to a couple of old timers here in my home town that I've recently talked to about "whittling". Both of these guys I've talked to about whittling and both of them were using old CASE and QUEEN STEEL folders like the ones you buy at your local hardware store. Both folders had high carbon steel blades and both guys told me that even the newer/better stainless blades won't do for detailed whittling. However I feel that a few of the steels that Spyderco uses can also be great for whittling as well.
I wanted to immediately take issue with one guy in particular and even offered to let him use one of my ZDP-189 Spyders but he turned his nose up at the offer :rolleyes: I guess old dogs are content with the tricks they've learned already :confused: But I digress
I personally believe that some of these newer supersteels and even well heat treated tool steels would also be great blades to whittle with. What do you all say about that? Are there any steels that any of you guys ever tried to whittle with that you found to be good>> and I'm mainly speaking of blade steels that most of us Spyder-Heads frequently use? Also which blade grinds do you all find advantageous for whittling? Let's talk about that subject. And they don't just have to be stainless blades if you've found a carbon steel or a unique tool steel that you all like.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:35 am
by Mattysc42
Lc200n is perfect for whittling. S35VN, K390, and A11 all take amazing edges at any grit. 13c26 (AEB-L) and 14c28n are designed to be used in razor blades, and should be perfect as well. Basically, if the steel is very fine grained, tough, and fairly stable at 10-15dps, it will work well for whittling, in my experience.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:39 am
by Evil D
52100, Super Blue, any steel with decent hardness and good edge stability that isn't prone to chipping.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:47 am
by VooDooChild
Yeah I have worked with some older guys, who are into knives, but to them theres carbon steel and stainless steel and they dont want to learn anything more about steel than that.
If you just told that guy you had a carbon steel blade, he might have given it more approval.
Also, if they take their whittling pretty seriously, they might not use anything other than a traditional slip joint. So that can be another issue.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:40 am
by JMM
I've had great results with SuperBlue & XHP for whittling, VG10 would be my next pick... all three are quick & easy to get wicked sharp... past that, it's just a matter of finding which blade shapes work best for what you're trying to do... a little practice with different ones will guide the way in my experience.
Cheers,
John
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:12 pm
by Mike Blue
Carbon steel, and don't overthink it.
Not merely a Scandinavian grind, but a Finnish grind. There is a difference. After getting a demonstration, I've continued this opinion. The grind may be more important than the steel.
I had some very interesting lessons in a mineshaft of a bar in northern Finland one January about whittling. The first part of the ritual was entering the bar and reaching to the left for a stick from the basket inside the door. Then you ordered your beer. While you sat with friends and talked and drank, you whittled, or in my case appeared to whittle. The floor of this place was two inches deep in wood shavings. The walls were covered in sticks. Very good carver's work too.
Finland is a country where being without a knife causes questions to weigh heavy on your usefulness as a human being. Not knowing how to carve wood artistically is a forgivable deficit and "you can always get better with practice". I had a puukko of my own making that took inspection satisfactorily. That saved my trip.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:20 pm
by aaronkb
I hold think anything with good edge stability and toughness... I’ve also known people who didn’t know a think about steel or its properties but smugly touted a particular type or category as superior, such as carbon steel or Victorinox’s secret proprietary steel. Sometimes you can convince them otherwise, sometimes you can’t.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:27 pm
by prndltech
That’s what they make whittler pattern knives for :D
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:27 pm
by Albatross
XHP, M390/20CV/204P, Rex 45, and VG10 all work well, since they don't have the super aggressive edges you get with the really high carbide steels. With the finger test, the edges feel smooth and not so toothy. I like the way the finer-grain steels cut wood.
When it comes to whittling, XHP and Rex 45 are my favorites for sure. XHP might win by a little, but only because it can be sharpened faster, and responds incredibly well to strops.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:56 pm
by Larrin
If carbon steel works well (as would be expected), then the next step up would be AEB-L or 14C28N for enhanced wear resistance from the chromium carbides, plus stain resistance of course.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:58 pm
by Pokey
JD Spydo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:25 am
“I wanted to immediately take issue with one guy in particular and even offered to let him use one of my ZDP-189 Spyders but he turned his nose up at the offer :rolleyes: I guess old dogs are content with the tricks they've learned already :confused: But I digress “
I wonder what that guy would’ve said if you told him your ZDP-189 blade isn’t steel. (With 3% carbon it’s technically too much to be steel on the iron/carbon phase diagram.) They may have started reaching for the pitchforks, torches, and ax handles.
I read somewhere that Case’s carbon steel (CV) is 1095. Like others have said, I’d guess any fine grained, easy to sharpen blade would work the best.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 1:28 pm
by Cambertree
Yeah I agree on Super Blue, 52100, AEB-L, and probably V-Toku 2 and 8Cr13MoV being well suited for making smooth whittling cuts in wood.
Blade and handle ergonomics would probably count more than steel choice. I can definitely think of some very skilled and prolific whittlers who are happy to use reground Swiss Army Knives as their tools of choice.
An Australian woodworker in Perth did some tests a few years ago with a variety of chisels in different steels including PM steels.
The results were interesting, and show that the 'best' steel for your specific needs is not always the most wear resistant one.
https://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolRevie ... aring.html
I'm no whittler myself, but if I was going to a attempt a project with a Spydie, I'd probably go to my Superblue Delica with contoured scales, or the AEB-L Urban.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:15 pm
by yablanowitz
I do call myself a whittler, and I've done some carving with a lot of different steels. The problem I have with Spyderco's steels is the grind. Very few are ground thin enough to do detail work, and even fewer are both short enough for good control and narrow enough to get into tight spots. S30V actually works quite well, K390 makes me wish for a whittler pattern in it. I'm currently doing a project with a Maxamet Native. The steel is great, the knife not so much.
It's pretty tough to sell us old farts on a super steel for whittling when the blade is built for chopping rocks.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:06 pm
by JD Spydo
Evil D wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:39 am
52100, Super Blue, any steel with decent hardness and good edge stability that isn't prone to chipping.
I know those two selections would be good for whittling. Along with XHP, S110V, LC200N as suggested.
That one company that specializes in whittling knives that goes by the name "Flexcut">> I was told uses 1095 which is a very basic old school carbon steel. The 52100 and Superblue both make more sense to me. I've even wondered about ZDP-189 too?
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:19 am
by brj
Had some very good experiences with 14C28N and H1 ground pretty thin, I'd recommend both. Also the carbon steel used by Marttiini works like a charm.
Mike Blue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:12 pm
Carbon steel, and don't overthink it.
Not merely a Scandinavian grind, but a Finnish grind. There is a difference. After getting a demonstration, I've continued this opinion. The grind may be more important than the steel.
I had some very interesting lessons in a mineshaft of a bar in northern Finland one January about whittling. The first part of the ritual was entering the bar and reaching to the left for a stick from the basket inside the door. Then you ordered your beer. While you sat with friends and talked and drank, you whittled, or in my case appeared to whittle. The floor of this place was two inches deep in wood shavings. The walls were covered in sticks. Very good carver's work too.
Finland is a country where being without a knife causes questions to weigh heavy on your usefulness as a human being. Not knowing how to carve wood artistically is a forgivable deficit and "you can always get better with practice". I had a puukko of my own making that took inspection satisfactorily. That saved my trip.
Great story, Mike.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 6:10 am
by JD Spydo
Mike Blue wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:12 pm
Carbon steel, and don't overthink it.
Not merely a Scandinavian grind, but a Finnish grind. There is a difference. After getting a demonstration, I've continued this opinion. The grind may be more important than the steel.
I had some very interesting lessons in a mineshaft of a bar in northern Finland one January about whittling. The first part of the ritual was entering the bar and reaching to the left for a stick from the basket inside the door. Then you ordered your beer. While you sat with friends and talked and drank, you whittled, or in my case appeared to whittle. The floor of this place was two inches deep in wood shavings. The walls were covered in sticks. Very good carver's work too.
Finland is a country where being without a knife causes questions to weigh heavy on your usefulness as a human being. Not knowing how to carve wood artistically is a forgivable deficit and "you can always get better with practice". I had a puukko of my own making that took inspection satisfactorily. That saved my trip.
It sounds to me like Finland would be a country I would really feel at home with. It truly makes me sad that so many people here in the good old USA are getting so brainwashed to believe that there is something immoral or politically incorrect about carrying a pocketknife. I like the way you guys think. Because I believe that by not carrying a pocketknife makes you Un-Prepared for so many things a guy might encounter.
Also your comment on carbon steels is a point well taken. Maybe it's in the category of "If It Ain't Broke Then Please Don't Try To Fix It". Oh I'm sold on these newer/better high performance stainless blades that Spyderco has made famous. But at the same time I'm not going to abandon some of the older carbon steels either. Speaking of which>> I'm now wondering if that carbon steel known as "INFI" that is used by the Busse knife company might just be a great whittling steel?
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:38 am
by jdw
I am hoping this is the right thread to throw this question out there but what is 80CRV2 and is there a similar Spyderco steel? My understanding is that it's a high carbon steel and there is a lot of chatter about it but that's about the extent of my knowledge.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:55 am
by npad69
My favorite steel for whittling is Cruwear
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:07 am
by JD Spydo
npad69 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:55 am
My favorite steel for whittling is Cruwear
Ashamed to say that I haven't yet gotten a Spyder with Cruwear although I did get to test one briefly once. I've also not yet got one with Maxamet either. But they are both on my list to get before the year is over. The medical costs I've had in the past 2 years are enough to make the Rockefeller family upset :eek:
From what I've heard of Cruwear in it's wide range of uses I can easily believe that it would be a good whittling steel. I'll know before too long.
Re: Ideal Blade Steels For Whittling?
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:14 am
by JD Spydo
yablanowitz wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:15 pm
I do call myself a whittler, and I've done some carving with a lot of different steels. The problem I have with Spyderco's steels is the grind. Very few are ground thin enough to do detail work, and even fewer are both short enough for good control and narrow enough to get into tight spots. S30V actually works quite well, K390 makes me wish for a whittler pattern in it. I'm currently doing a project with a Maxamet Native. The steel is great, the knife not so much.
It's pretty tough to sell us old farts on a super steel for whittling when the blade is built for chopping rocks.
Hey thanks for chiming in on this one YAB :) I had a funny feeling you would respond to this one. I've not tried K390 yet but I have done some testing with M390 with decent results and I can easily believe that K390 would be good for that type of job. Like I said in my last post I haven't yet gotten to own a Maxamet Spyder or one made with Cruwear either.
I'm kind of surprised you don't like the NATIVE model. That's been one of my favorite hard use knives for quite a while now. But maybe the design isn't the best for whittling.
Speaking of the old Spyderco blade steels I do remember reading in one of my past issues of BLADE magazine ( late 90s) that ATS-34 was at one time touted to be a good steel for whittling knives. But one must keep in mind that it was considered one of the top notch blade steels of that time. I doubt anyone would rate it very high now a days with all the new Supersteels that have hit the scene,.