SE performance is more than simply teeth vs no teeth.

[RyanY]

A lot of the benefits of SE vs PE don't apply when the PE knife is sharpened very coarse…

That's why I went from being such a strong advocate of SE, to putting my enthusiasm behind very coarse PE edges. Because to me they offer most the advantages of SE (Cutting great even when dull, edges not slipping off materials, very aggressive slicing) while removing the drawbacks (SE is weaker than PE, SE snags more than PE regardless of how its sharpened, SE takes more specialized equipment to sharpen).

YMMV but in my life I don't require a PE or SE from a utility pocket knife. I can get by with one or the other. Other specialized knives like machetes and chef knives I may require a specific edge type, but I don't personally see a benefit in EDCing both types.

That’s really helpful insight. I was worried about carrying only a serrated edge because my most common edc use is peeling and slicing fruit, the kind of simple on the go “food prep” that doesn’t require a kitchen knife. The endela and even the delica and native all do great for peeling and slicing apples and oranges etc.

So anyway I tried a serrated steak knife to peel and slice an apple today. That knife wasn’t very sharp but the serration pattern was reasonably good and I was surprised at how clean the cuts were. If you examine the surface of the cut you can tell it was cut by a serrated edge but it was smooth and wavy not shredded. So that makes me understand your point that really I wouldn’t need to carry both, I could do all those small food prep tasks with a spydie edge no problem, and I think in the garden with vines and roots and fiberous plant stuff I would benefit from a serrated edge.

Since you already know the Endela, I think it would be a good option to go with that one, but in SE and VG10 (rather affordable too). It has a great serration pattern.

Now for your question: If I carried a large and a small knife and one of those had to be in PE: Without any doubt I´d go with SE for the large one and PE for the small one (and make the small one a wharnie perhaps).

Excellent insight. And it is interesting because I spent almost a year carrying only a dragonfly so sometimes the endela feels massive for me but at the same time when I am doing camp cooking I sometimes wish for something longer.

I also love scuba diving and free diving (though I’m not doing much right now, I was diving more often while in Asia last year.)
So if I get another serrated knife I sorta want it to be either the pacific salt se or the native 5 magnacut se

I need to save my funds for a little bit though because a few days ago I got scammed on Reddit trying to by a magnacut native 5 (a bit my fault, I was obviously slightly too trusting, but I learned my lesson) but that’s a reminder when buying online to follow your gut. If something feels amiss then just pass on it.

thanks Vivi and Wartstein for the thorough responses as always. I appreciate your thoughts.

Another thing is that everytime I think about buying something serrated a shiny new plain edge blade takes my money one of these days…

[Cl1ff]

I’ve been gathering pictures like this for a personal project. I figured I would post these ones to this thread for fun.

Plain edge K390 vs Serrated 8Cr13MoV (LeafJumper and Byrd Hawkbill).

The Byrd’s serrations are a great wavy pattern.

Next to a theropod dinosaur tooth from the Late Cretaceous.

There are some interesting common misconceptions about the serrations on teeth.
I think these pictures help partly illustrate what’s misunderstood or often wrongly stated, but I’m saving the explanation for now.

Vivi’s observations might be somewhat relevant

There is indeed a lot more to it than teeth or no teeth.

[Bill1170]

Today I used my SE Endura to trim some shoots from two giant birds-of-paradise clumps in my yard. This Endura is saber ground, and I reprofiled the serrations to 15 degrees on my Sharpmaker. Normally I carry my SE Endela, which is flat ground, and also reprofiled to 15 degrees on the 204 Sharpmaker. These shoots ranged in diameter from 3/8” to over one inch. The little ones severed like a hot knife through butter, but the fatter shoots were noticeably harder to cut than they were with the Endela. Once again it is clear that thinner knives perform better in semi-rigid media (these shoots behave similarly to fresh celery when cut). Both knives are paper-slicing sharp.

[RustyIron]

Today I used my SE Endura to trim some shoots from two giant birds-of-paradise clumps in my yard.

Right on.
When I'm planning on spending some time in the yard, I'll stick the SE Police in my pocket. It's not nearly as sharp as ANY of my PE knives, but the SE will slice through plants like a Darth Vader's light saber.

[Dealer100]

I’ve owned nearly every salt knife in H1 SE. I’ve heard Sal and Eric both say H1 serrated had a HRC in the mid 60’s, and that it is harder than lc200n SE. My two questions are:
1) H1 SE vs lc200 PE? (With a 60 HRC it seems lc200 would be the loser here)
2) H2 SE vs H1 SE? I have no idea but I’ve been buying up H1’s from anywhere I can find them online since being discontinued. Imo H1 SE was an underrated one of a kind super steep that perhaps only Magnacut can rival for the blend of hardness, toughness and corrosion resistance.

[TimButterfield]

It took several days, but I've read through this whole thread and have ordered some SE, mostly FFG.

I was interested in a hawkbill SE, but could only find those with hollow/saber grind and not FFG. Does an FFG SE Hawkbill exist? Or, is there something about the hawkbill shape that prevents FFG SE? If a hollow/saber grind is required for an SE hawkbill, how does that affect cutting compared with FFG SE in other blade shapes? Or, to rephrase, how does shape affect SE cutting for the different grinds?

[Bill1170]

The discontinued Superhawk is flat ground.

[TimButterfield]

Thanks, Bill1170. I see the flat grind on the Superhawk, but I only see it with PE, not SE, unless I just didn't search enough.

[Bill1170]

Thanks, Bill1170. I see the flat grind on the Superhawk, but I only see it with PE, not SE, unless I just didn't search enough.

Good point. I just searched some more and only found PE examples. An SE FFG hawkbill blade is a bit of a unicorn. Whale rescue comes closest.

[JayHenMac]

I have a question about the various SE geometries in the Spyderco lineup. From reading through this thread I have learned that thickness behind the edge has a lot to do with the SE performance and ease of sharpening. I want to dive in and try out a fully serrated edge for my EDC. What would you all advise as a good one to jump in with? My current EDC is either a Native or a Para 3 depending on my mood. I've read several posts about the thickness of the SE Native. Is that a negative when it comes to the SE blade? What about a SE Para 3? I am partial to 3-3.5 inch blades.

[dsvirsky]

Let me preface this by noting the Native 5 is the only Spyderco model I own five of, two of them SE: S35VN (20°) and Magnacut (15°). I own one Para 3, SE, BD1N (20°) and I'm unlikely to add another Para 3 to my collection. That said, if I was going to recommend one of the two models to someone who's going to use it for the same things I do, mostly opening boxes and cutting cardboard, it would be the Para 3. With a negative blade angle and more belly, the Para 3 works better for how I cut cardboard. Unfortunately, the compression lock makes it unsuitable IMO for sweatpants pockets, so I'm actually more likely to carry the Magnacut Native 5.

[olywa]

There's several Spydie SE models in that size range, and several different steels as well. I think one of the best values is the discontinued Rock Jumper SE in VG-10. It's a Wharnie, don't know how you feel about that. Still available for under $60 at some sites. VG-10 in SE is no slouch.

[JayHenMac]

Thanks for the recommendations. Like everyone else right now, I am infatuated with magnacut. I am really eyeballing the SE Native 5 magnacut. Does the thickness of the blade detract from its usefulness when compared to a thinner SE blade on something like a Delica?

[Wartstein]

..... I am partial to 3-3.5 inch blades.

My recommendation for trying out the spyderedge always is the VG10 Endela SE.
Real workhorse for a reasonable price with roomy handle, great steel for teeth and its particular kind of serrations (shallow, non aggressive..) is what finally turned me into an SE guy.

Blade length 3.41, so (for me luckily) longer than the Natives or Para 3s, but still within your 3 to 3.5 preferences.

That said: I had the Para 3 LW SE for a month or so, and while the model itself is just not for me, the serrations were nicely done.

[JayHenMac]

Thanks for the suggestions and opinions. I couldn't decide... So I got two. I ordered a SE Native 5 in Magnacut and a SE Endela in K390. I put a Delica VG10 on my Christmas wish list.

I think I'm becoming a collector.

*Edit for bad spelling

[Wartstein]

Thanks for the suggestions and opinions. I couldn't decide... So I got two. I ordered a SE Native 5 in Magnacut and a SE Endela in K390. I put a Delica VG10 on my Christmas wish list.

I think I'm becoming a collector.

*Edit for bad spelling

Certainly good choices, but just to be clear:

My recommendation always is the VG10 Endela SE.

Of that one I know it is great from my own extensive experience, while I have none with the K390 version (especially how hard teeth in that hard steel are to sharpen).

[Bill1170]

I spent 90 minutes last night reprofiling my new K390 SE Endura on the CBN rods at the 15 degree setting. It’s a slog. I’m not counting strokes, just focusing on proper technique. It appears that I’m halfway done but that’s an illusion because progress slows as the new bevel gets wider. The points don’t even start getting rounded until late in the game; mine still appear factory from the back side because nothing has touched the edge yet.

[skeeg11]

For any SE newbies who are wanting to dip their toes in SE waters, I heartily recommend the Byrd serrated Harrier 2 Wharnie. A real performer and best bang for the buck.

[olywa]

I think the Harrier 2 SE is on the disco list so get it while you can. I've seen it as low as $25 and that is a pretty sweet deal.

[shane1]

A lot of the benefits of SE vs PE don't apply when the PE knife is sharpened very coarse.

I sharpened my EDC, a PE Military, weeks ago. It stopped scrape shaving a while ago. Still has incredible cutting performance since I only took it to 180 grit.

I also ran an experiment where I went two months without sharpening my PE Pacific Salt. It still cut fine at the end of two months, despite hacking into a steel fence by accident and rolling nearly the entire edge a couple weeks into the experiment.

There's a bit of a bias in a sense towards SE here. SE is awesome in certain scenarios. But a lot of the "magic" of SE can be replicated with a very coarse PE.

That's why I went from being such a strong advocate of SE, to putting my enthusiasm behind very coarse PE edges. Because to me they offer most the advantages of SE (Cutting great even when dull, edges not slipping off materials, very aggressive slicing) while removing the drawbacks (SE is weaker than PE, SE snags more than PE regardless of how its sharpened, SE takes more specialized equipment to sharpen).

All three edge types have their pros and cons (SE, polished PE, coarse PE). One thing SE does have over either PE edge, for example, is it clearly offers more cutting edge in the same blade length.

As far as carrying two knives, I'd pick two light ones. I'd probably rock a PE and SE Pacific Salt. I'd go SE H1/H2, and PE LC200N. Hx steels are tougher than LC so I like them better for SE, while the LC Pacific is extra light which negates some of the down sides of carrying two knives.

YMMV but in my life I don't require a PE or SE from a utility pocket knife. I can get by with one or the other. Other specialized knives like machetes and chef knives I may require a specific edge type, but I don't personally see a benefit in EDCing both types.

Good info. A couple of questions:

Which stone do you use to get the course edge?

Which Military is your EDC and how do yo like it?