Spyderco Forums

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:33 am**

There has been a lot of talk lately about giants and whether or not they ever existed. I think they did and do. I am not talking about 14 foot monsters or larger. However, when you consider that in ancient times, the average height might change based upon food supply. An average male in Europe being from 5'5" to 5'8" in height, depending on the era. Native Americans were a tad taller, while in South America the average male height was only 5'2" and the women only around 4'8". Now, supposing such a person were to meet a 7' or 8' tall person. That person would truly be a giant. We have records of many such people and not all with health problems. In the Bible, Goliath was 6 cubits, or 9 feet tall and some of this relatives were only slightly less. The tallest men in the 20th and 21st Centuries were 8'11" and that is 6 cubits and there are quite a few that were close that mark where a good guess would put them at 6 cubits without a tape measure. It is very conceivable that giants did exist, as they do today, and may have been more common in some cultures than in others.

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:05 am**

It’s often only when you go into really old buildings that you realise just how short people were.

Having said that, many people in the UK were astonished how big soldiers from the colonies were when they arrived in WW1. Good, meat rich diets and healthy outdoor lifestyles had made a huge difference in just a few generations compared to home grown industrial slum-dwellers.

It would be interesting to know what is happening in China in this respect with their rapid move from rural to industrial society, but I guess we may never know.

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:45 am**

Yeah I believe the Biblical accounts of the giants and they have been doing some interesting digs in Peru and Bolivia in South America that has been yielding some interesting results. Everything from elongated skulls to all kinds of super large tools, shields and other large artifacts.

There are scholars like Richard Dewhurst, Jim Vieira, Steve Quayle and Timothy Alberino who have all made some extremely interesting discoveries regarding the existence of giants in ancient times. In old Native American history there were records of giants and little people both in ancient North America.

In the Bible and the Book of Enoch there records of the giants before the flood and after the flood. Scholars are debating Genesis Chapt 6 and discovering that it holds the key to a lot of indicators. In the Book of Second Samuel it makes reference to Goliath and the ancient city of Gath. Also in II Samuel it tells of these giants having six toes and six fingers>> and from what many archaeologists have discovered that appears to be the case.

According to some historians Ferdinand Magellan encountered giants in what is know today as Patagonia. There were some interesting accounts in his log books about the Patagonian Giants. Yes I do believe they existed on the planet and I've heard reports of encounters in Kandahar Afghanistan and the Solomon Islands in modern times.

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:34 am**

Another explorer later said that Magellan's chronicler exaggerated the height of the Patagonian giants a bit. Later explorers said (if I remember rightly) that they were (a still impressive) 7.5 feet tall. That is a real giant to a man who is only in the low to mid 5 foot range, for sure. Still more in the realm of reason.

With all of the 8 foot plus people within the last couple of centuries, it is not unreasonable to suppose that with the right diet that a person with gigantism, or some similar issue, might reach a full 9 feet or a bit better. After all, Robert Wadlow was only an inch shy of that mark. That is a big man. Not all modern giants had health problems, either.

I believe giants were and are real, but I believe they are like most such things: they get bigger in the telling. According to Plutarch, the gods of Greece were all real men at one time, but there great feats became exaggerated over time till people thought they were gods. I think this likely and I think the same is true of giants. A 30 or 40 foot giant is just not reasonable and is just an exaggeration for the sake of a story or to make a point that has been passed down.

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:49 am**

Any of the record height holders from the last 100 years would have been considered a giant a thousand years ago before people understood the conditions that cause people to not stop growing. I also believe history has quite a lot of embellishing written in as fact.

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:13 pm**

Doc Dan wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:34 am
Another explorer later said that Magellan's chronicler exaggerated the height of the Patagonian giants a bit. Later explorers said (if I remember rightly) that they were (a still impressive) 7.5 feet tall. That is a real giant to a man who is only in the low to mid 5 foot range, for sure. Still more in the realm of reason.

I never got all the particulars on what Ferdinand Magellan had actually encountered in what's known as modern day Patagonia. If what you're saying is truly the case then you can make cases for that in other parts of the globe as well. The Dinka tribe in Sudan to this day has some extremely tall people. One of them was Manute Bol who actually played in the NBA>> he was listed as 7' 7"tall. When I was living in KC I ran into a Sudanese couple in a Walgreen store> the woman was at least 6' 7" tall and her husband was every bit of 7 foot tall and possibly 7' 2">> that was truly the tallest couple I ever seen in my life. WE had an entire community of Sudanese people in Northeast KC and I seen a lot of very tall people in that group.

Another oddity was the guy we knew as Andre The Giant who was a WWF ( now WWE) wrestler who was listed at 7' 4" tall and weighed 525lbs. A very good friend of mine who used to work at Kemper Arena here in KC ate lunch with Andre and his crew before a wrestling match he had here in KC. Gary my friend told me that Andre could take the ring off of his ring finger and you could literally drop a Kennedy half dollar ( 50 cent piece) through the ring :eek: .

WE also had a guy here in Missouri named Robert Wadlow who grew to be 8' 2" but died when he was only 22. Now these aren't Biblical giants as I have studied them>> however I've wondered if some of their bloodline might have got mingled throughout the centuries? There are many native American Indians that have historical account of Giants being here in the North American continent in the past. Most Bible Scholars figured Goliath and his Brother who were both Phillistine Giants to be between 9.5 to 10 feet tall each. The archaeologists that were said to have found the bed of King Og from the book of Deuteronomy >> his bed was said to be 14 feet long>> that was documented in "Biblical Archaeology" Magazine that is found at most newsstands throughout the USA.

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:18 pm**

Evil D wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:49 am
Any of the record height holders from the last 100 years would have been considered a giant a thousand years ago before people understood the conditions that cause people to not stop growing. I also believe history has quite a lot of embellishing written in as fact.

That is a good point you make David because a Bible scholar that I got to meet at a lecture told me that the disciple Peter and the Apostle Paul were both said to just be barely over 5 feet tall and some scholars say they weren't even that tall back then>> and that's pretty short by today's standards. But nutrition and the environment and many other factors have played a role in what we all are today for sure.

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:23 pm**

JD Spydo wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 15, 2018 12:13 pm

Doc Dan wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:34 am
Another explorer later said that Magellan's chronicler exaggerated the height of the Patagonian giants a bit. Later explorers said (if I remember rightly) that they were (a still impressive) 7.5 feet tall. That is a real giant to a man who is only in the low to mid 5 foot range, for sure. Still more in the realm of reason.

I never got all the particulars on what Ferdinand Magellan had actually encountered in what's known as modern day Patagonia. If what you're saying is truly the case then you can make cases for that in other parts of the globe as well. The Dinka tribe in Sudan to this day has some extremely tall people. One of them was Manute Bol who actually played in the NBA>> he was listed as 7' 7"tall. When I was living in KC I ran into a Sudanese couple in a Walgreen store> the woman was at least 6' 7" tall and her husband was every bit of 7 foot tall and possibly 7' 2">> that was truly the tallest couple I ever seen in my life. WE had an entire community of Sudanese people in Northeast KC and I seen a lot of very tall people in that group.

Another oddity was the guy we knew as Andre The Giant who was a WWF ( now WWE) wrestler who was listed at 7' 4" tall and weighed 525lbs. A very good friend of mine who used to work at Kemper Arena here in KC ate lunch with Andre and his crew before a wrestling match he had here in KC. Gary my friend told me that Andre could take the ring off of his ring finger and you could literally drop a Kennedy half dollar ( 50 cent piece) through the ring :eek: .

WE also had a guy here in Missouri named Robert Wadlow who grew to be 8' 2" but died when he was only 22. Now these aren't Biblical giants as I have studied them>> however I've wondered if some of their bloodline might have got mingled throughout the centuries? There are many native American Indians that have historical account of Giants being here in the North American continent in the past. Most Bible Scholars figured Goliath and his Brother who were both Phillistine Giants to be between 9.5 to 10 feet tall each. The archaeologists that were said to have found the bed of King Og from the book of Deuteronomy >> his bed was said to be 14 feet long>> that was documented in "Biblical Archaeology" Magazine that is found at most newsstands throughout the USA.

Wadlow was 8'11", not 8'2". He was literally 6 cubits in height (6 cubits = 9 feet). There have been some tall people in modern times. Such a person that is 8 feet or higher is truly a giant. The tallest person I have personally known was 7 feet tall. I felt like a child standing next to him and I am slightly above average height. I can imagine standing next to someone approaching or exceeding 8 feet. And 9 feet like Wadlow and some others? Wow! That is huge.

Wadlow died from a parasite, BTW.

Even women get tall. Sandy Allen who died just a few years ago was 7'7". That is a big woman. Yao Defen in China just died from hitting her head during a fall. She was also at least 7'7".

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:56 pm**

Doc Dan wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:34 am
That is a big man.

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:14 pm**

Back in the early 70's, in Montreal, used to see Andre the Giant occasionally - he was part owner of a restaurant "Le Pichet" a few doors up Rue Mackay from the main campus building of Sir George Williams University (which I was a student at). He was 7 foot 4 at the time. A bunch of were having lunch at the tavern across from the University once, and Andre walked in.. we called him over to our table and stood him a few rounds of beers.. I remember him being a really nice fellow..

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:58 pm**

Sad thing is a lot of these people wished they were never this tall, due to multiple medical and physical limitations. Most of the time they grew to this size due to an overactive pituitary gland.

Especially back in older times, a lot of "giants" were just sideshow circus acts. Granted all these guys in the NBA that are 6-11 to 7-3 are huge humans...they don't compare to some of the others mentioned.

I have a friend of a friend, a local kid that was given a full scholarship to Michigan for basketball back in 2010 I believe? Ben Cronin. He was 7ft tall...had a lot of knee problems, which ended up costing him his career after his sophomore season.

Definitely not a luxury to be a huge human!

Posted: **Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:48 pm**

Bloke wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:56 pm

Doc Dan wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:34 am
That is a big man.

Wow! that is a really big man! I wonder how tall he was?

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:02 am**

Doc Dan wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:48 pm
Wow! that is a really big man! I wonder how tall he was?

Doc, I wouldn’t have the foggiest, but it’s supposed to be footage shot in Japan around 1890.

I’m tipping it’s a crock. :)

Edit:

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:37 am**

flasharry wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:14 pm
Back in the early 70's, in Montreal, used to see Andre the Giant occasionally - he was part owner of a restaurant "Le Pichet" a few doors up Rue Mackay from the main campus building of Sir George Williams University (which I was a student at). He was 7 foot 4 at the time. A bunch of were having lunch at the tavern across from the University once, and Andre walked in.. we called him over to our table and stood him a few rounds of beers.. I remember him being a really nice fellow..

My friend Gary who I referred to in one earlier post told me that Andre the Giant had actually gotten his start in Montreal, Quebec Canada. I think that was even where his wrestling career got started as well from what I read on an old WWF website. But again him and those other people that Doc mentioned are extraordinarily large humans>> they are not true giants like those depicted in the Bible. There were supposedly ruins found in Bolivia that revealed the bones of a giant that indicated the guy must have stood well over 15 feet tall.

A guy and his team who have done a lot of research on giants ( Steve Quayle & L. A. Marzulli) had a conference in Branson, Missouri this past September and I was told they had a true to life, authentic skull of a giant there at the conference. I was also told that the skull was elongated. I wanted to go to that conference but medical bills killed that idea :rolleyes: According to what both of those guys said at the conference that some of the skeletons of the giants that were discovered in South America ( Peru, Bolivia & Brazil) all had 6 toes and 6 fingers>>that is also referred to in the Bible in the Second book of Samuel, chapter 21, verse 20.

What I find extremely strange is that the Bible makes many references to giants but yet most ordained Pastors and theologians won't touch the subject with a 50 foot pole :confused: But yet they will hold their ground with every other subject in the Bible but not that one :confused:

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:45 am**

Amazing thread. Thanks for the information and pictures. I walked through a museum with suits of armour from centuries past and one of the museum guides commented that, as some of you have stated on here, due to enviroment and nutrition and other factors such as genetics, human populations have been known to increase and decrease in size.

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2018 8:14 am**

SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 16, 2018 7:45 am
Amazing thread. Thanks for the information and pictures. I walked through a museum with suits of armour from centuries past and one of the museum guides commented that, as some of you have stated on here, due to enviroment and nutrition and other factors such as genetics, human populations have been known to increase and decrease in size.

Good Point! Because like Doc and others pointed out there have been just regular humans that have had extraordinary size differences ( big & small) but the real giants that the Bible has talked about have profound differences. There is so much to decipher from Genesis Chapter 6 which I believe holds the Key to the truth. There has been a lot of talk in the past ten years about the Nephilim that is spoken of in Gen, Chapt 6.

Yeah it goes without saying that NBA basketball players, wrestlers, some extremely large NFL football players and some sideshow freaks you see at carnivals and circuses are not true giants as depicted in the Bible.

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:37 am**

I would like to note that I said that Wadlow was the a similar height as Goliath. At 8'11", he was a real giant. That's 9 feet or 6 cubits of human being. Goliath was 9'9". Goliath's height is not really all that unbelievable after all. However, the Septuagint (LXX, 4th to 2nd centuries BC), which is older than the Masoretic Hebrew text (500 AD) has Goliath's height at 6'9".

As for the 6 fingers and six toes, that is a trait that pops up now and again. I know a woman with 6 fingers, in fact. So, it is conceivable that some giants also had 6 fingers and/or toes as it is a not unheard of human trait. The Bible does not say Goliath had 6 fingers and toes, I do not believe. The Bible says one giant in Gath had 6 fingers and toes.

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:19 am**

you might find this interesting, from a reputable and well respected website

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4113151/

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:08 am**

Bloke wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:02 am

Doc Dan wrote: ↑
Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:48 pm
Wow! that is a really big man! I wonder how tall he was?
Doc, I wouldn’t have the foggiest, but it’s supposed to be footage shot in Japan around 1890.

I’m tipping it’s a crock. :)

Edit:

And a crock it is. Note how the horse and rider seem to suddenly squeeze through his legs and the structure behind him appears and disappears between his left arm and body. Poorly done fake.

These “giants” are unfortunate souls with genetic abnormalities as was likely Goliath. I also suspect that a boy killing an armed man, regardless of his size, is a bit of wishful thinking.

Posted: **Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:54 pm**

MichaelScott wrote: ↑
Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:08 am
These “giants” are unfortunate souls with genetic abnormalities as was likely Goliath. I also suspect that a boy killing an armed man, regardless of his size, is a bit of wishful thinking.

The Bible records that David killed the giant with a sling and stone, at a distance.

A skilled slinger in ancient warfare was a very formidable enemy. I don't find the idea that a boy skilled in the use of the sling could take down an armed man incredible.

The Bible also speaks elsewhere of a group of slingers so skilled that they did not miss their targets by a hair's breadth. You did not want to mess with those fighters.

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