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Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 3:08 pm
by Sharp Guy
sal wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:56 pm
We've not had a chipping problem with S30V. It's been a very reliable steel for us.
sal
I keep reading comments about how chippy S30V is. I have several of your knives with it and I've yet to see any chipping. I'll admit that some if these knives don't see use any harder tha breaking down carboard. I do have a PM2 and Para 3 with S30V that I use at work and they sometimes get a pretty good workout. I keep waiting to experience this chippiness that all these people speak of. Still waiting....
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:28 pm
by brainfriction
Yeah I feel like "s30v is chippy" belongs up there with the "Maxamet is impossible to sharpen" lore. lol.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:00 pm
by Halfneck
sal wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:56 pm
We've not had a chipping problem with S30V. It's been a very reliable steel for us.
sal
Sal I have the Lil'Temp 3 and so far the S30V has been fine. Granted it's a standard edge and not a Scandi-grind though. My bad experience with S30V was from another company, and early in that steel's introduction. Sort of just made me gunshy with it.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:09 pm
by Bodog
Most of my experience with S30V has been from spyderco. It's my least favorite steel from them. I don't have a charpy or impact tester. All i have is what I've personally seen. S30V isn't that good relatively speaking. I thought spyderco did the mule team project exactly because lab results and the results of real world testing may vary. S30V is literally one of the worst steels I've used. Does it crumble at the slightest hint of misuse? No. The question is does it hold up as well compared to S110V or Cruwear or N690 or any number of other steels readily available. The answer is no, in my experience. It does nothing that well. Even corrosion resistance is mediocre.
But i get why it's so readily used and i get why it's so readily available from spyderco. Doesn't mean a number of other, better performing, steels can't be had for competitive prices. Time to move on, even of that means we see 204P in most knives. I don't think many people would complain.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:24 pm
by vivi
sal wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:56 pm
We've not had a chipping problem with S30V. It's been a very reliable steel for us.
sal
I've had the same experience with all of my Spyderco S30V, even taking the edge down on a Manix XL pretty thin and subjecting it to rough use. I've made other stainless steels chip but not S30V.
But, I have not used it in a fixed blade, and I do subject those to tougher jobs than folders.
204P does seem like a good upgrade to S30V but I don't think it would be economical to use the same way. Standard Spydercos with black G10 and 204P, like a Para 2 or Millie, would likely sell over $200 based on sprint prices.
Compared to S30V, 204P holds an edge longer and IMO isn't any more difficult to sharpen. I was pleasantly surprised by this steel as someone that typically doesn't chase after super long edge holding. I enjoyed sharpening it more than I figured I would.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:31 pm
by Bodog
Vivi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:24 pm
sal wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:56 pm
We've not had a chipping problem with S30V. It's been a very reliable steel for us.
sal
I've had the same experience with all of my Spyderco S30V, even taking the edge down on a Manix XL pretty thin and subjecting it to rough use. I've made other stainless steels chip but not S30V.
But, I have not used it in a fixed blade, and I do subject those to tougher jobs than folders.
204P does seem like a good upgrade to S30V but I don't think it would be economical to use the same way. Standard Spydercos with black G10 and 204P, like a Para 2 or Millie, would likely sell over $200 based on sprint prices.
Compared to S30V, 204P holds an edge longer and IMO isn't any more difficult to sharpen. I was pleasantly surprised by this steel as someone that typically doesn't chase after super long edge holding. I enjoyed sharpening it more than I figured I would.
They're more expensive only because they're sprint runs. 204P is not much more than S30V, especially if ordering in the bulk spyderco does. I'd be happy to proven wrong by spyderco, but i don't believe that'll happen. 204P, in the final manufacturing price, may result in maybe $20 more per knife, if that. And that's a very, very generous assumption.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:01 pm
by vivi
All of the production 204P models have been pricier models for Spyderco. If it could be phased in as a replacement with minimal cost increase I'd be all for it, but I'd be surprised if that's the case.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:10 pm
by fanglekai
Bodog wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:09 pm
Most of my experience with S30V has been from spyderco. It's my least favorite steel from them. I don't have a charpy or impact tester. All i have is what I've personally seen. S30V isn't that good relatively speaking. I thought spyderco did the mule team project exactly because lab results and the results of real world testing may vary. S30V is literally one of the worst steels I've used. Does it crumble at the slightest hint of misuse? No. The question is does it hold up as well compared to S110V or Cruwear or N690 or any number of other steels readily available. The answer is no, in my experience. It does nothing that well. Even corrosion resistance is mediocre.
But i get why it's so readily used and i get why it's so readily available from spyderco. Doesn't mean a number of other, better performing, steels can't be had for competitive prices. Time to move on, even of that means we see 204P in most knives. I don't think many people would complain.
Mediocre corrosion resistance? Doing what? I live in a humid area and I haven't seen even a speck of corrosion on any of my S30V blades.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:44 pm
by PStone
Not a puukko, I know. But this is my wolfspyder that is a true zero grind scandi in s30v. I haven’t sharpened this since I removed the microbevel when I first got it. It sees light to medium use 1 to 3 days a week. No chips, no microchips, only a bent tip.
This knife performs so well in s30v, that I totally understand why sal and co picked it. Plenty tough enough and offers great corrosion resistance.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:55 pm
by vivi
Sure looks like there is a microbevel there.
S30V works fine at very thin edge angles for light and medium duty. But would it be ok whittling seasoned hardwood and splitting apart small sections of wood for kindling? That I have no experience with when it comes to S30V.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:37 am
by supracor
Bodog wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:09 pm
Most of my experience with S30V has been from spyderco. It's my least favorite steel from them. I don't have a charpy or impact tester. All i have is what I've personally seen. S30V isn't that good relatively speaking. I thought spyderco did the mule team project exactly because lab results and the results of real world testing may vary. S30V is literally one of the worst steels I've used. Does it crumble at the slightest hint of misuse? No. The question is does it hold up as well compared to S110V or Cruwear or N690 or any number of other steels readily available. The answer is no, in my experience. It does nothing that well. Even corrosion resistance is mediocre.
I can say the same things. All my S30V experience came from Spyderco, and it's not so good; i have had all my S30V Spyders at 20 dps and practically i could only cut cardboard and nothing else. The only S30V knife that i haven't sold is the Vallotton because i love the appearance and f&f.
I'm not talking about S30V that is chippy. In my opinion it's just crap, for you it can be a good steel, everyone can have opinions.
In some models it can be the best steel choice, but hey,
we're talking about a S30V zero ground woodworking/outdoors type blade, that is a gimmick, if not a joke.
Read the title. It doesn't say "S30V is bad", and in fact the Puukko was just an example. I talk about evident wrong steels in some designs that have an enormous potential but that exploit it very little.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:03 am
by supracor
sal wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:56 pm
Hi Supracor,
We opted for a stainless to bring the design into a broader realm. It was our first Puuko and out first collaboration with the maker. We also made the knife quite a while ago before we were using as many steels as we are now. Hard to please everyone.
sal
Thanks for the clarification :)
Can i suggest for some designs some low-carbide stainless or carbon steels?
Of course i know that the market wants PM stainless superultrahyperhigh-carbide steels, but not all the designs can be made out of them.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:23 am
by curlyhairedboy
Vivi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:55 pm
Sure looks like there is a microbevel there.
S30V works fine at very thin edge angles for light and medium duty. But would it be ok whittling seasoned hardwood and splitting apart small sections of wood for kindling? That I have no experience with when it comes to S30V.
Geometry might play a role as well. I'm able to do hard use things with the tip of my S30V Shaman that I'd never try with my M4 PM2.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:13 am
by npad69
I don't think there's anything wrong with S30V and I've never had any of mine chip. The fact that I find VG10 already an overkill makes this steel more than ample for my uses. What I don't like about S30V is how quick it loses its push-cutting sharpness compared to VG10 and I don't care much about the "working edge" at all. Anyways, I prefer XHP over both if given the choice. I just love the toughness and the way it sharpens if I am to look at blades in the same price range.
Re: Fist in the Eye
Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:34 am
by Rutger
Vivi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:24 pm
204P does seem like a good upgrade to S30V but I don't think it would be economical to use the same way. Standard Spydercos with black G10 and 204P, like a Para 2 or Millie, would likely sell over $200 based on sprint prices.
The DLT Trading PM2 in 20CV that drops today will be only a few bucks more than a base model in S30V....
Though the profit margin on them will be lower and i don't think there is enough supply of M390/204P/20CV to take over on all models yet. But price shouldn't be an huge issue.