Spyderco Forums

I really think as a community we've gotten lazy and spoiled when it comes to corrosion prevention. The average stainless is worlds better than what most of us grew up with, you really need to neglect your knives to have real problems. Not only do we have better steels (well, more stainless) we also have slews of corrosion resistant chemicals, some of which are even food safe to help prevent rust. There will always be extreme cases like Lance who spends his days on the ocean, or Vivi who has the world's most corrosive sweat (lol) but for most of us it's really non issue.

Evil D wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:27 am

I really think as a community we've gotten lazy and spoiled when it comes to corrosion prevention. The average stainless is worlds better than what most of us grew up with, you really need to neglect your knives to have real problems. Not only do we have better steels (well, more stainless) we also have slews of corrosion resistant chemicals, some of which are even food safe to help prevent rust. There will always be extreme cases like Lance who spends his days on the ocean, or Vivi who has the world's most corrosive sweat (lol) but for most of us it's really non issue.

I also think people get fixated on the blade and never think about all the other metal in the knife, which is often more likely to rust than the blade itself. If you're not worried about where all that moisture remains trapped and you don't experience problems, odds are your stainless steel blade will be fine as well.

if you are worried about rust and edge holding, just get a carribean. I have a spydiechef that i don't even wipe down or wash since the day i bought it.. it hasn't rusted on me yet. this is the reason why LC200n is now my favorite stainless steel (used to be vg10)

npad69 wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:45 am

if you are worried about rust and edge holding, just get a carribean. I have a spydiechef that i don't even wipe down or wash since the day i bought it.. it hasn't rusted on me yet. this is the reason why LC200n is now my favorite stainless steel (used to be vg10)

I got ya there, my spydiechef or caribbean are almost always in my pocket now. S110v has also held up well to not being cleaned as religiously.

Evil D wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:27 am

I really think as a community we've gotten lazy and spoiled when it comes to corrosion prevention. The average stainless is worlds better than what most of us grew up with, you really need to neglect your knives to have real problems. Not only do we have better steels (well, more stainless) we also have slews of corrosion resistant chemicals, some of which are even food safe to help prevent rust. There will always be extreme cases like Lance who spends his days on the ocean, or Vivi who has the world's most corrosive sweat (lol) but for most of us it's really non issue.

I think for some the problem might be the opposite. The stainless steels we grew up with like 440A, 420HC and whatever Victorinox uses were fairly low in carbon with a good amount of chromium. They had mediocre edge retention but were quite stainless. Even the early super steels like VG10 and 154CM hovered around 1% carbon. Now that we have stainless steels like S30V and XHP which have around 1.5% as well as some stainless steels with far more we are trading higher hardnesses and better wear resistance for the better corrosion resistance those older steels have.

I do agree that we have some great products available for rust prevention, many developed for firearms. I also agree that today’s stainless steels are still easy enough to maintain.

I find that a sweaty waistband or pocket is one of the most corrosive environments, regardless of steel. It's similar to an environment which receives salt spray. You have easy access to moisture (for hosting the rust reaction between oxygen and iron), salt (for catalyzing the rust reaction, or speeding it up), and air (the source of the oxygen required for the rust reaction). Crucially, the exposure to all of these is uneven. Certain spots on the metal will have more salt/air/moisture exposure, and then these spots will cause accelerated corrosion due to the galvanic linkage between the non-corroded areas.

Different additives to various steel blends will have different effects on corrosion resistance, and the type of corrosion resistance. Surface discoloration proceeds differently than pitting, for example.

While on the subject Vivi when you get rust in one day on the liners I would think first if there was left over steel dust from sharpening on those liners or something else giving rust a head start. That material used on liners is a bunch more corrosion resistant than the regular blade steels. The dust will do what dust does and not only begin rusting faster due to the nature of rust but it will start stainless steel surfaces that will normally resist corrosion longer rusting in short order. Sure carbon steel dust is worse but even stainless steel dust will rust causing the problems in areas that normally won't. I try to always get rid of anything not knife or lube off the knives before use when new and after sharpenings.

Wanting a rust proof knife isn't anything unusual. Long before H1 and Salt's were put on the market I recall spending a heap of money on a Mission Beta Ti knife just to have something completely rust proof. That is where I learned how bad steel dust is in beginning corrosion as steel dust on a Ti knife can supposedly cause some problems. So I read anyways. I never saw any corrosion on Ti from anything but I never did learn to like that Beta ti blade either. Even the cheapest knife steels outperform it for cutting. I still have a few Salt's in H1 kicking around but rarely use them. Last time I went to the beach for the week I just used my Vg10 Enduras.

Joe

There are some people who have body chemistries that are just corrosive. There are some in the opposite extreme (me). Most people are in the middle. Those that have corrosive body chemistries have to take extra care when handling steels of any kind, and especially carbon steels. Such people can take reasonable care of a knife or a firearm and still find rust. Two things that help are a change of diet and use of vaseline on hands and metal.

Can't argue with you on that Doc. I'm one. Same reason I went Titanium on my most carried .38 sp. The only things that I can say are a PITA for me are hot blued old military rifles. A fingerprint can set in the bluing in a half an hour here in the summer on the range. I've never found any knives that bad though fortunately. They are easy to keep clean in comparison IME.
joe

bearfacedkiller wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:18 am

I think for some the problem might be the opposite. The stainless steels we grew up with like 440A, 420HC and whatever Victorinox uses were fairly low in carbon with a good amount of chromium. They had mediocre edge retention but were quite stainless. Even the early super steels like VG10 and 154CM hovered around 1% carbon. Now that we have stainless steels like S30V and XHP which have around 1.5% as well as some stainless steels with far more we are trading higher hardnesses and better wear resistance for the better corrosion resistance those older steels have.

I do agree that we have some great products available for rust prevention, many developed for firearms. I also agree that today’s stainless steels are still easy enough to maintain.

Kinda funny you mention that, I guess I really just didn't had much stainless when I was a kid. I remember people preaching about 440 like it was a gift from the gods but I only ever had carbon steels growing up so maybe my perception is a bit skewed. I even remember my older brother used to carry a rather large Case (don't recall the model) wrapped up in a cloth that was saturated with 3-in-1 oil. I remember knife care as being really the same mentality as gun care...when you used it, you took it home later that day and cleaned it, no exceptions. Back then the idea of a steel like H1 would have sounded like science fiction.

From previous comments you have made David I believe we are the exact same age or pretty close. We likely grew up using the same steels. Since becoming a steel junkie and knife knut I have reflected a bit on the knives and steels I grew up with. I made it through childhood with just a handful of knives. A Buck 110 in 420HC, various SAKs in whatever they use, many Old Timer medium and large stockmen in 1095 and an old Western fixed blade also in 1095. I agree with you completely that we were taught back then that knife maintenance of many knives was similar to gun maintenance considering how prolific 1095 was then. While Spyderco does offer many non stainless folders now there is no doubt that stainless steels dominate the market. You are absolutely right that many young knife lovers didn’t grow up with all those carbon steel folders.

I was just sharing a different perspective and depending on how you look at it both are correct in my opinion.