Why No Elmax Equivalent?

[The Meat man]

Maybe there's a simple answer to this, but...why isn't there an American version of Elmax steel? There are a lot of steels with equivalents:

For M390, there are CTS-204P and CPM 20CV
We have CPM Cru-Wear and Micro-Melt PD#1
PSF27 is very similar to D2...

...and so on.

Why not an equivalent for Elmax?

[bearfacedkiller]

While it is not the exact same recipe S30V and S35VN are both very similar. Performance wise they fill the same niche.

[Bodog]

While it is not the exact same recipe S30V and S35VN are both very similar. Performance wise they fill the same niche.

Respectfully I completely disagree. Different capabilities. Elmax is far more capable of handling rougher work and retaining its sharpness. There's more to steels than data on paper shows. Again, this is just my opinion but elmax is superior to s30v snd s35vn in real world use. S35VN is better than S30V. Certain tests performed that remove real world variables may show different results.

[bearfacedkiller]

No worries Bodog, I actually agree. I have only limited experience with Elmax but from what I have seen it does seem to perform a little better than S30V/S35VN. That is why I asked recently for an Elmax Military. The response from most in that thread was that they didn’t think that it was different enough from S30V/S35VN to be worth a run. I still want an Elmax Military. I need to see for myself. :)

Also, I agree that just studying the composition does not tell the whole story. I think that the OP’s question was basically asking why the American foundries do not have an analog to Elmax and I think the reason is that S30V and S35VN fill that niche in their lineup already. The foundries also probably don’t want to overcrowd their product lines with materials that are designed to fill the same applications.

[VashHash]

Cpm 20cv is probably closest when it comes to actual make up. Just has more chromium, vanadium, and some tungsten.

[The Meat man]

I have no experience with either Elmax or S30V/S35VN. It just seemed to me from the alloy compositions and general reports and opinions I've heard, Elmax is different. For one thing, it is often said to have both higher corrosion resistance (which makes sense given the +4% chromium content) and toughness.

[Larrin]

Maybe Elmax is patented but M390 isn't.

[Evil D]

I think this can be answered with another question...



How many knives do you see being sold in Elmax, and does there really seem to be a major market demand for it?


There may not be an equivalent because people have moved on to the latest and greatest steel of the week and Elmax is old news. What is/was the primary use for Elmax anyway, was it originally a tool steel used in manufacturing or was it actually designed for cutlery? If it's the latter, then I think you know the answer. If it were something being used in manufacturing that had some benefit over other steels, it's almost certain that another company would have made something similar, or perhaps better and that's why you don't see the equivalent.

[The Meat man]

Here is what Uddeholm says about Elmax applications:

New types of engineering plastics, with high
filler contents, place greater demands on the
tooling material, in terms of wear resistance
and corrosion resistance. Uddeholm Elmax
SuperClean has been specially developed for
high-tech applications. These include products
within the electronic industry such as connec-
tors, plugs, switches, resistors, integrated
circuits, etc. Uddeholm Elmax SuperClean can
also be used in the food processing industry
and for industrial and custom knives, where a
combination of corrosion resistance and wear
resistance is required.


So it does have industrial applications but I suppose the demand for it in the cutlery business must not be very high.

[TomAiello]

I think this can be answered with another question...



How many knives do you see being sold in Elmax, and does there really seem to be a major market demand for it?

Lots, and yes.

It's a main steel for several manufacturers, large and small, from midrange to high end. Lionsteel, Zero Tolerance, Bark River, TRC..the list of manufacturers with knives I enjoy in Elmax is pretty extensive.

Here, for example is one major retailers Elmax stock: https://www.knifecenter.com/kc_new/stor ... arch=Elmax


FWIW, the knife I use most often, which is the very last one I'd sell, is a custom (PW B&T) in Elmax.

[awa54]

So, as an extension of the original thought, how does 20CV compare to Elmax? I have only seen that steel in a few limited production run knives, but it certainly looks like it might share some of the strengths of Elmax.

Edit: ...too many darned analogs, looks like 20CV is an M390/204P equivalent, which of course makes it not entirely unlike Elmax, but certainly not the same steel!

Somehow I had it mixed up with CTS-20CP, which I just realized isn't quite an exact S90V duplicate.

LOL, I even own a Mini Griptilian in 20CV, but had somehow mis-remembered it as being M390...

[Fixmeister]

I have a BM Griptilian in 20CV. Not apples to apples since their heat treat and target hardness might be different but, it’s a nice steel. Not blown away with its edge holding though. Been through a couple sharpenings on the Wicked Edge and it sharpens nicely and polished brilliantly. I’m thinking Spyderco would run it a couple of points higher. Might change my opinion of it.

[snapshot2017]

Microtech uses it that should tell you something about the quality of this steel.

[Donut]

I like the DPx Heat knife and I have four of them, the one that has the most super steel of the bunch is made with Elmax. The other three are close competitors to D2.

I like Elmax, I use it, it works well and is stainless. I think I traded away my Elmax Para 2 because it isn't a very super steel compared to many other Para 2's.