Very DISAPPOINTED w/ laminated steel sprint runs

[dsvirsky]

"How does it affect the performance?"
Well, if the lamination line crosses into the edge and apex you have an open-faced sandwich, just one layer of cladding and one of V-Toku. The unsupported V-Toku is more susceptible to chipping.

There is no "sandwich" at the edge on any laminated blade. The edge is always just the core metal. Think about it. :confused:

[Bloke]

There is no "sandwich"

[Pelagic]

"How does it affect the performance?"
Well, if the lamination line crosses into the edge and apex you have an open-faced sandwich, just one layer of cladding and one of V-Toku. The unsupported V-Toku is more susceptible to chipping.

There is no "sandwich" at the edge on any laminated blade. The edge is always just the core metal. Think about it. :confused:

Was he not referring to the difference in apex stability introduced by a lamination line being within the bevel? It seems to me that this couldn't be the same as having the entire bevel consisting of the core steel.

[SpyderScout]

I'm disappointed that people put so much emphasis on something that is irrelevant to the performance of the knife. I've bought $400 Sukenari's chef knives that didn't have picture perfect lamination lines, it never even crossed my mind that it was an issue. I went to the stone and sharpened and enjoyed it in use.


I'm disappointed I haven't heard anyone here talk about how the steel performed, just how the lines don't have PERFECT symmetry.

I like to think the community here is different and places a huge emphasis on performance, but to see so much whining about lamination lines and so much misunderstanding on lamination is a real bummer.

Hope the people that are disappointed get it worked out.
I'd recommend Rockstead knives if you need that perfection.

+1

[The Mastiff]

dsvirsky wrote: ↑
05 Jul 2018 08:56

Bruce Mack wrote: ↑
05 Jul 2018 07:47
"How does it affect the performance?"
Well, if the lamination line crosses into the edge and apex you have an open-faced sandwich, just one layer of cladding and one of V-Toku. The unsupported V-Toku is more susceptible to chipping.

There is no "sandwich" at the edge on any laminated blade. The edge is always just the core metal. Think about it. :confused:

Was he not referring to the difference in apex stability introduced by a lamination line being within the bevel? It seems to me that this couldn't be the same as having the entire bevel consisting of the core steel.

The lamination ends before the edge bevel begins so it is "unsupported" by the cladding steel. I don't see how it is less tough or more prone to chipping because of it. The V-Toku cutlery steel is all around more suited to the job of making a knife edge than the cladding steel. Does it need cladding to support it? No way. It's there for other reasons.

Joe

[Deadboxhero]

"How does it affect the performance?"
Well, if the lamination line crosses into the edge and apex you have an open-faced sandwich, just one layer of cladding and one of V-Toku. The unsupported V-Toku is more susceptible to chipping. In fact, my Endura did develop a small chip when it first encountered cardboard and not in the defective area.

I don't understand

Are you saying that it's ideal to have 50 % cladding on one side and 50% core steel on the other? Otherwise it leads to the chipping you experienced?

Reiterate that for me so I understand

[Deadboxhero]

I'm disappointed that people put so much emphasis on something that is irrelevant to the performance of the knife. I've bought $400 Sukenari's chef knives that didn't have picture perfect lamination lines, it never even crossed my mind that it was an issue. I went to the stone and sharpened and enjoyed it in use.


I'm disappointed I haven't heard anyone here talk about how the steel performed, just how the lines don't have PERFECT symmetry.

I like to think the community here is different and places a huge emphasis on performance, but to see so much whining about lamination lines and so much misunderstanding on lamination is a real bummer.

Hope the people that are disappointed get it worked out.
I'd recommend Rockstead knives if you need that perfection.

Even sal said my endura didn’t meet his standards and should have never left the factory. There is a difference between some variation which is okay and one side only being a millimeter from the edge. It is a performance issue when it’s that close to the edge. Those words came from Spyderco’s warranty department. So I’m glad you are cool with some things. Others are not including Spyderco.

If you have enough room on each side even if it’s uneven I can deal with that. But lines disappearing before the edge or just above the edge so a few sharpening sessions.....it’s gone. Unacceptable. Sal even said so.

How does it affect the performance?

You are asking the wrong person. Ask Sal or the warranty team. This has been a hot topic “visual lines vs performance” for a while and not just this thread. Lots of people SPECULATING one way or the other if it affects performance when the laminated line disappears. Some say it does and some say it does not. No one here is qualified to make that determination other than Sal and the Spyderco folks who really know.

Speculation? Qualification?

Ask Sal?

I'm asking you

Just tell me how it effects the performance or link another thread or source where you got the information about lamination lines.


Shawn

[Bruce Mack]

"How does it affect the performance?"
Well, if the lamination line crosses into the edge and apex you have an open-faced sandwich, just one layer of cladding and one of V-Toku. The unsupported V-Toku is more susceptible to chipping. In fact, my Endura did develop a small chip when it first encountered cardboard and not in the defective area.

I don't understand

Are you saying that it's ideal to have 50 % cladding on one side and 50% core steel on the other? Otherwise it leads to the chipping you experienced?

Reiterate that for me so I understand

I'm trying to say that the 2 layer area (cladding, V-Toku) is more susceptible to chipping than the intended 3 layer segment (cladding, V-Toku, cladding). I reasoned that the V-Toku may be brittle in itself, requiring cladding on both sides for support, even then possibly susceptible to chipping.
I see that my phrasing was misleading.

[Deadboxhero]

"How does it affect the performance?"
Well, if the lamination line crosses into the edge and apex you have an open-faced sandwich, just one layer of cladding and one of V-Toku. The unsupported V-Toku is more susceptible to chipping. In fact, my Endura did develop a small chip when it first encountered cardboard and not in the defective area.

I don't understand

Are you saying that it's ideal to have 50 % cladding on one side and 50% core steel on the other? Otherwise it leads to the chipping you experienced?

Reiterate that for me so I understand

I'm trying to say that the 2 layer area (cladding, V-Toku) is more susceptible to chipping than the intended 3 layer segment (cladding, V-Toku, cladding). I reasoned that the V-Toku may be brittle in itself, requiring cladding on both sides for support, even then possibly susceptible to chipping.
I see that my phrasing was misleading.

Ahh but if that was true the there would be even less support since the vtoku2 would be even more exposed on each side.
Regardless, Vtoku2 is not brittle, quite the opposite it's much tougher at the edge then hap40 and super blue.

As far as the chipping on cardboard, there are other things that need to be ruled out before exotic conclusions can be made.
Such as was the burr fully removed? Or was it a false/wire edge that failed? Also was there just a moment where the edge may have made contact with something hard? It's also difficult to evaluate without a photo.

[MichaelScott]

I think aesthetics and personal preferences are the core of the OP’s complaint. Performance doesn’t swing much weight.