Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:51 pm
Spyderco Forums
Change in UK Knife Buying
Page 3 of 3
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:45 pm
:D It IS hard to talk knife law without talking Politics.
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:00 pm
I guess my comments could be perceived as political, though I'm trying not to be so. My bad. Hard to talk about knife laws though. Let's try to keep it to knife laws.
sal
sal
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:50 am
And all the while the UK government is happy to expand the arms trade, including to some very dubious regimes...”I am so sorry, sir, we can sell you the radioactive cluster bombs and the riot control armoured cars, but not the 3 inch locking pen-knife”demoncase wrote: ↑Sun Jun 24, 2018 11:39 amYou aren't going to get anywhere arguing for a reasonable pro-knife law-making approach in the UK.....not when the tabloids are screaming "won't somebody think of the children!?"SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:44 amdemoncase, sal, Michael, and others here and also critter if you can read this thread: Here is a question. Because human beings tend to be inherently greedy, could the following be a useful argument to use in favor of we knife people around the world, in response to these bans, or, would it fall on deaf ears or not have much of an emphasis in their eyes? Here is what can be said to them: "By banning the production and sale of these and other knives, you are negatively impacting a potentially lucrative and large market, that you can all benefit from economically. If you instead craft laws that are pro knife and encourage the production, sale, manufacturing, and distribution of knives, cutting tools, and edged weapons, you become richer and more popular in the eyes of the people across the board: 1 You will get credit for creating and helping to expand the job market in these areas and 2 You can personally benefit well by making money off the knives and their sales and the advertising that goes along with it.
In short, if these politicians and other law makers could someone benefit from the production and sale of knives, would that cause them to reverse these knife bans in the UK and USA, Canada, and other places, or, would even appealing to their personal self-interest for greed and fame not work out in favor of the pro knife people?
Likewise- Knife collecting and ownership in the UK is a niche within a niche. We are a small community with zero political throw-weight.
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:53 am
It is not about safety, it is about control.
History repeats itself ad infinitum.
History repeats itself ad infinitum.
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 3:00 am
ChrisinHove wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 12:50 amAnd all the while the UK government is happy to expand the arms trade, including to some very dubious regimes...”I am so sorry, sir, we can sell you the radioactive cluster bombs and the riot control armoured cars, but not the 3 inch locking pen-knife”
LOL, reminds me of the time some soldiers were going through "airport security" for an exercise and some wise guy official
said something about the soldier had a big knife on him and he couldn't take it through!
Said soldier (as did all of them) was carrying a Full Auto M16/M203.
Agree it's all about Control.
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 4:29 am
SpyderEdgeForever wrote: ↑Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:12 amWhat would they do if biotechnology reached the point to where everyone could have Endura blades growing out of their fingertips like kitty cats have? (Actually cat's claws are more akin to miniature Tasman Salts :)
I guess that then everybody would have a point :D
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:55 am
On the contrary, and you can even see from the article you link to, the communities with this problem are in fact very ethnically diverse, and the older generations aren’t prone to wanton violence either.Gsg9 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:25 amChrisinHove wrote: What I wonder about is why we are seeing more disproportionate & extreme violence (in certain areas and demographics).
We are not talking desperate poverty or need, a reaction to oppression, or a fight for freedom, just a sub-culture shift to intolerance and a desire to maim and/or kill in altercations that a few years ago would probably have just resulted in a few punches.
Most of the victims (and the perpetrators) belong to a certain ethnic group
It doesn't have to sound racist but this is what it is...
https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/london-murd ... this-year/
Now the British authorities are punishing all ethnic groups including the native British :D for knife murders of immigrants descendants belonging to a specific ethnic group
Punishment that will not solve anything(like those guys were buying knives online :D ), knives will still be available
If not, a piece of metal that can be sharpened prison style will still be available
Meanwhile Africans are flooding into Europe and EU is on the brink of collapse due to that
Sal is very wise in his statement that the opposite of war is trade. Trade with, and economic development of, 3rd world areas is the best option to stemming migration by making migrants home countries worth staying in.
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:01 am
I wish sal was in charge of all knife laws. :)
Now, and I am trying to stay as non political on this as possible, clearly we have seen that in some areas, rational thought has prevailed, as Knife Rights has shown, in some cities and states they have actually reversed the anti knife bans and have reinstated the right to carry even auto knives and large knives with blades over five inches long. Yet in other areas as pointed out, the bans are more and more draconian.
And so here is my question: What is it about the minds of those whom are pro knife whom have passed pro knife laws, that can be encouraged and expanded into those other places? How can the likeminded who are pro knife get into those positions of law-making power in order to make the laws pro knife again? Does it really come down to whom is voted in and whom is not, basically, and whom is appointed in and whom is not?
Now, and I am trying to stay as non political on this as possible, clearly we have seen that in some areas, rational thought has prevailed, as Knife Rights has shown, in some cities and states they have actually reversed the anti knife bans and have reinstated the right to carry even auto knives and large knives with blades over five inches long. Yet in other areas as pointed out, the bans are more and more draconian.
And so here is my question: What is it about the minds of those whom are pro knife whom have passed pro knife laws, that can be encouraged and expanded into those other places? How can the likeminded who are pro knife get into those positions of law-making power in order to make the laws pro knife again? Does it really come down to whom is voted in and whom is not, basically, and whom is appointed in and whom is not?
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:55 am
I don’t usually like digging up old threads but I liked this post.
History is jaded about such things such as the amount vikings traded and where.
Anyway uk laws get most things wrong, most crimes involves the easily acquired kitchen knives. To me I noticed crime is never truly solved it just adapts and changes form.
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 10:05 am
Both the above are very true.
Te Trade (or business, employment) and the natural cycle of generations, Ireland is a good example.
Te Trade (or business, employment) and the natural cycle of generations, Ireland is a good example.
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:27 pm
The biggest problem with prohibitive or restrictive laws is that they are a distraction. The people potentially affected, whether it's gun owners, knife owners, etc. are so busy trying to prevent themselves from being infringed on, and the government is so busy trying to infringe on them, that what gets lost in the shuffle is the issue of the people actually committing the crimes, and how to deal with that, from short term to long term solutions.
It may be purely political for the people who propose such laws, but to the people threatened by them, it is personal. I don't care what someone's politics is if they come to me and tell me they want to take away or restrict my stuff. I'm not gonna see it as a political issue. It's just about me not wanting to be infringed on and wanting to be left alone.
The more people talk about knife control, gun control, halberd control, whatever, the less anyone talks about solving the problem of the crimes. The sideshow becomes the main issue -- and for the people threatened with legal attack -- such as the gun or knife owner -- the only issue, relative to that subject.
If you want to look at solving the problem of criminal violence, you have to stop attacking people who aren't criminals.
Sadly I think many in politics would rather benefit from a problem existing so they can feel useful by offering nonsolutions, than solve it and lose a means of making themselves feel useful.
Lonerider
It may be purely political for the people who propose such laws, but to the people threatened by them, it is personal. I don't care what someone's politics is if they come to me and tell me they want to take away or restrict my stuff. I'm not gonna see it as a political issue. It's just about me not wanting to be infringed on and wanting to be left alone.
The more people talk about knife control, gun control, halberd control, whatever, the less anyone talks about solving the problem of the crimes. The sideshow becomes the main issue -- and for the people threatened with legal attack -- such as the gun or knife owner -- the only issue, relative to that subject.
If you want to look at solving the problem of criminal violence, you have to stop attacking people who aren't criminals.
Sadly I think many in politics would rather benefit from a problem existing so they can feel useful by offering nonsolutions, than solve it and lose a means of making themselves feel useful.
Lonerider
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:33 pm
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:26 am
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 1:33 am
Absolutely. Very well put.lonerider1013 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 7:27 pmThe biggest problem with prohibitive or restrictive laws is that they are a distraction. The people potentially affected, whether it's gun owners, knife owners, etc. are so busy trying to prevent themselves from being infringed on, and the government is so busy trying to infringe on them, that what gets lost in the shuffle is the issue of the people actually committing the crimes, and how to deal with that, from short term to long term solutions.
It may be purely political for the people who propose such laws, but to the people threatened by them, it is personal. I don't care what someone's politics is if they come to me and tell me they want to take away or restrict my stuff. I'm not gonna see it as a political issue. It's just about me not wanting to be infringed on and wanting to be left alone.
The more people talk about knife control, gun control, halberd control, whatever, the less anyone talks about solving the problem of the crimes. The sideshow becomes the main issue -- and for the people threatened with legal attack -- such as the gun or knife owner -- the only issue, relative to that subject.
If you want to look at solving the problem of criminal violence, you have to stop attacking people who aren't criminals.
Sadly I think many in politics would rather benefit from a problem existing so they can feel useful by offering nonsolutions, than solve it and lose a means of making themselves feel useful.
Lonerider
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 12:46 pm
Thanks.
Re: Change in UK Knife Buying
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 3:35 am
What a crappy solution, what's the point of this? Most of these criminals that use such tools to do harm, be it knives or acid, are in their 20s and 30s to begin with, statistically.Accutronman wrote: ↑Thu Jun 21, 2018 9:47 amUnder the Offensive Weapons Bill, purchasers will have to collect items in person to prove they are over 18 and online sellers face up to 51 weeks in prison and a fine if they do post such items to a residential address.