The Return of S60V/440V

[blues]

Yep...kinda like the old "skinners" which are popular in the traditional world of fixed blades among hunters and outdoorsmen.

There's a reason why some designs are classics.

[p_atrick]

It's built for freehand Sharpening too. It's easy to run on a stone.

I've noticed that my chef's knife is much easier to use on stones. My cheap folder (for practice purposes) is much harder. Have you found any particular folding knives that lend themselves better for freehand sharpening?

[ZrowsN1s]

....

Gotta post a shot of those red liners :D

[Deadboxhero]

You want thin knives and a little clearance from the plunge or ricasso.

It's built for freehand Sharpening too. It's easy to run on a stone.

I've noticed that my chef's knife is much easier to use on stones. My cheap folder (for practice purposes) is much harder. Have you found any particular folding knives that lend themselves better for freehand sharpening?

[Deadboxhero]

....

Gotta post a shot of those red liners :D

:D

[Deadboxhero]

I've made a couple knives in S60V now, same handles.
They're a little different due to the nature of making them soley by hand and eye

Here is the second one.

Also 60-61rc.

The edge finish I find that works best for this steel with this HT is 325-600grit (a lot like what I find with S30v, S90V and S110V)

Compared to Elmax, S60V has more wear resistance and aggression but less tougheness.

Seems to fill a nice sweet spot for toothy edges in between S30v and S90V, and in between Elmax and M390.

[Deadboxhero]

Here are the liners on the second one.

....

Gotta post a shot of those red liners :D

[ZrowsN1s]

.....
Seems to fill a nice sweet spot for toothy edges in between S30v and S90V, and in between Elmax and M390.
...

Looks great. Love the green and red together. Not to get to far off topic from the s60v but you mentioned M390, do you prefer 325-600 grit for that as well?

[Deadboxhero]

That's an interesting topic, probably for another thread. In production knives I've used, the m390 was probably closer to 60rc and I did feel like it was better with the 600grit then moved up with fine diamond strops. However, I've talked to Mike Elmer at Bladeshow West and I was facinated that Elliott was pushing M390 very hard at 63-64rc. Mike Elmer does all freehand sharpening in hand with Edge pro stones and he is all about high polished edges. I feel higher hardness is very crucial for polished edges since the apex is smoother and needs the strength to support the "shape" of the apex, especially since the Carbides are less exposed and are more buried and blended into the apex.

I also talked to Valentin from Cultrotech, I feel they make the finest folding knives in the world and at $2-3k per knife.no detail is spared. I don't speak any Russian and he doesn't speak much English but we both are fluent in knife steel :D

I learned from our conversation they where seeing huge performance gains by going harder with the m390 at 63-64rc, we also talked about HT protocols for it as well.

I have a piece of M390 I've gotten from a friend but I haven't had the time to see for myself the performance.

But I'm very curious, but I'm utterly insane. I'm curious about all steels :D

I'd say it's difficult to say one steel will always do better with toothy or polish because we can have so much variation with HT. Also the steel doesn't sharpen itself.

The real hidden reason that no one wants to talk about is sharpening ability, Some folks just have difficulty making a good toothy edge because of the horrendous burr and the rely too much on grit progress to shrink burr. Some folks are the opposite, they can't make a crisp polished edge because they crush the apex with too much pressure or round the apex over do to accumulating inconsistencies by working the edge up with too many stones or lack of angle control or burr formation and removal.

So to answer your question YMMV I've seen people happy with both but I always go deeper to understand why they feel the way they do. The preference seems to boil down more to preference and use.
Want hair shaving and push cutting? Polish

Like Draw cutting and bite on rope? Toothy.

Real world? We need a blend of both :D "polished toothy"

.....
Seems to fill a nice sweet spot for toothy edges in between S30v and S90V, and in between Elmax and M390.
...

Looks great. Love the green and red together. Not to get to far off topic from the s60v but you mentioned M390, do you prefer 325-600 grit for that as well?

[sal]

Real world? We need a blend of both :D "polished toothy"

Sounds like a serration. :p

sal

[Deadboxhero]

:D :D :D

Real world? We need a blend of both :D "polished toothy"

Sounds like a serration. :p

sal

[ZrowsN1s]

...

So to answer your question YMMV I've seen people happy with both but I always go deeper to understand why they feel the way they do. The preference seems to boil down more to preference and use.
Want hair shaving and push cutting? Polish

Like Draw cutting and bite on rope? Toothy.

Real world? We need a blend of both :D "polished toothy"
...

Thanks for the detailed response bbb. In the beginning I could only get sharp edges by taking them to a high polish. Now I can get sharp edges at low grit as well. I tend to like push cutting, but have grown to appreciate the aggressiveness of a toothy edge, and the longevity of the toothy edges on steels like s110v.

A blend of both?
We should start putting a 'combo edge' on our knives. Toothy at the back polished up front. I made this suggestion on the forum a while back but the idea never caught on. :D

[Deadboxhero]

...

So to answer your question YMMV I've seen people happy with both but I always go deeper to understand why they feel the way they do. The preference seems to boil down more to preference and use.
Want hair shaving and push cutting? Polish

Like Draw cutting and bite on rope? Toothy.

Real world? We need a blend of both :D "polished toothy"
...

Thanks for the detailed response bbb. In the beginning I could only get sharp edges by taking them to a high polish. Now I can get sharp edges at low grit as well. I tend to like push cutting, but have grown to appreciate the aggressiveness of a toothy edge, and the longevity of the toothy edges on steels like s110v.

A blend of both?
We should start putting a 'combo edge' on our knives. Toothy at the back polished up front. I made this suggestion on the forum a while back but the idea never caught on. :D

That's the beauty of a plain edge, we have so many options at our disposal we are only limited by our creativity, skill and tools. I like to try to find the sweet spot with different stones and steels.

It's interesting you bring that up.

A japanese Deba sometimes is used with different finish and geometry from back to front by some users when butchering fish. I'm not a japanese chef so I don't practice the techniques but I thought it was interesting.


There is something unique however that is made by worksharp called "microforge" it puts a fine serration on the edge anywhere you draw the edge through the device.

I've been playing around with it and thought it was neat for doing exactly what you said. I'll share more about it when I'm caught up on orders.

[Deadboxhero]

S60V at 61.5rc


I thought it would be fun to do see what happens to the edge with abusive torquing and twisting cuts with lots of lateral force out of African blackwood (very hard wood) with S60v using a 400grit CBN stoned 1um diamond stropped edge at 14 DPS flat with a 0.010" BTE

Here is the result





The edge has yielded as seen from the rolled steel reflection on the bevel.

It will be interesting to see and compare at higher hardness which should increase the stability.

The edge character is enjoyable. Comes up aggressive off the CBN stone. Feeling the edge with my finger tips it really grabs at them.


Last year a customer took apart this whole elk with one of the knives seen earlier in this thread.



I got a chance to inspect the edge, it was a freehand convex edge, had some blunting but zero chipping. Higher hardness would mitigate the blunting of the edge better.

[GarageBoy]

Is s60v still readily available? Wonder why it's so rarely used, everyone goes for the s30v/s35vn, or right to the s90v. Middle child syndrome?