Toughest stainless steel ?

[bdblue]

Not sure how they measure the toughness factors in steel. But I can say by using and by experience that the old Crucible 440V is what I would personally call "tough". It is not only a great steel for Spyderedges but it's also a monster to sharpen. Of all the Spyders I've had with 440V I've never once had any chipping problems or cracks at all.

It's an interesting topic because I've noticed the blade steels that seem to be great for Spyderedges have more of a toughness factor than being super on the Rockwell scale. There are dozens of examples. Again I don't know how metallurgists measure toughness.

Steel toughness is measured with the Charpy V-notch test and IIRC the test results are given in ft-pounds.

In knife terms the overall toughness is a function of the steel, the heat treat and even to some extent the shape. This makes it very difficult to predict toughness of a knife. Of course the material itself could be tested but it still depends on heat treat.

Another IIRC- I read a test of an outdoor knife from a mundane 440 alloy and it turned out to be very tough. I'm guessing that some of the 440 variations can be tough, especially if kept to a lower hardness level.

I've also read that Elmax is one of the tougher of the more modern steels.

[ZrowsN1s]

How about cruwear?

[shunsui]

How about cruwear?

I don't think cruwear qualifies as a stainless steel at 7.5 % Cr.

Plenty tough though.

Crucible's cruwear at 62 Rc does 29.5 ft lbs on the charpy impact test.

http://www.matweb.com/search/datasheet. ... d10&ckck=1

[Pelagic]

From what I've gathered, Elmax is pretty darn tough for a high quality stainless.

[Zenith]

There was some good discussion on the subject here.

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/no- ... h.1535555/

Regardless what marketing data states the properties of the steel is determined by its chemistry. For a specific class of steel like stainless certain steels will perform better. So cross comparing S90V to something like S7 does not make sense.

Generally V notch testing is used but U notch and un-notched samples are also used. Normally if a steel is not that tough an un-notched sample is used. A lot of data sheets do not state what Charpy method was used. Then the data looks impressive. So keep that in mind when looking at data sheets. Soze dimention, orientation from the billet etc also influence the data and that is normally not stated in data sheets. I have only seen Era Steel give orientation and heat treatment specifications for their samples in Charpy testing.

Are most stainless tough enough for our uses? Yes. If you want to build a chopper, then AEB-L amd 440B has proven itself ove r the years in metallurgy and the field IMO.

[JD Spydo]

Not sure how they measure the toughness factors in steel. But I can say by using and by experience that the old Crucible 440V is what I would personally call "tough". It is not only a great steel for Spyderedges but it's also a monster to sharpen. Of all the Spyders I've had with 440V I've never once had any chipping problems or cracks at all.

It's an interesting topic because I've noticed the blade steels that seem to be great for Spyderedges have more of a toughness factor than being super on the Rockwell scale. There are dozens of examples. Again I don't know how metallurgists measure toughness.

Steel toughness is measured with the Charpy V-notch test and IIRC the test results are given in ft-pounds.

In knife terms the overall toughness is a function of the steel, the heat treat and even to some extent the shape. This makes it very difficult to predict toughness of a knife. Of course the material itself could be tested but it still depends on heat treat.

Another IIRC- I read a test of an outdoor knife from a mundane 440 alloy and it turned out to be very tough. I'm guessing that some of the 440 variations can be tough, especially if kept to a lower hardness level.

I've also read that Elmax is one of the tougher of the more modern steels.

Yeah we used to have those Charpy & Izod testing units where I worked at one time. However a couple of the machinists that I worked with that really knew their stuff used to tell me that those units really weren't all the great in determining bottom line toughness. They told me that ductility and malleability were better determining factors for overall toughness. Albeit those Charpy & Izod units were supposed to be used for that purpose but nobody there hardly ever used them :confused:

I'm also wondering if toughness isn't determined by the type of heat treatment they use. Obviously Spyderco's heat treatment of the old 440V gave it properties that I found to be ideal for Spyderedges. Again I'm not sure which steel they've used that would be determined to have the best toughness properties. It seems to me that the one sector that I've noticed that uses steels that have good toughness properties are the tool & die industires. Also those steels used in the Heating, Air Conditioning and Ventilation trades have a lot of ductility and toughness. I don't hear of many steels used in the cutlery trades having toughness at the top of their priority list.

[me2]

H1, AEB-L, 12C27, 13C26, 420HC, etc.

[Ankerson]

Not sure how they measure the toughness factors in steel. But I can say by using and by experience that the old Crucible 440V is what I would personally call "tough". It is not only a great steel for Spyderedges but it's also a monster to sharpen. Of all the Spyders I've had with 440V I've never once had any chipping problems or cracks at all.

It's an interesting topic because I've noticed the blade steels that seem to be great for Spyderedges have more of a toughness factor than being super on the Rockwell scale. There are dozens of examples. Again I don't know how metallurgists measure toughness.

Steel toughness is measured with the Charpy V-notch test and IIRC the test results are given in ft-pounds.

In knife terms the overall toughness is a function of the steel, the heat treat and even to some extent the shape. This makes it very difficult to predict toughness of a knife. Of course the material itself could be tested but it still depends on heat treat.

Another IIRC- I read a test of an outdoor knife from a mundane 440 alloy and it turned out to be very tough. I'm guessing that some of the 440 variations can be tough, especially if kept to a lower hardness level.

I've also read that Elmax is one of the tougher of the more modern steels.

Exactly.

The Charpy test is vastly over rated when it comes to knife blades, I don't consider them relevent overall due to the large variation in heat treating etc.


It's an extremely broad guide at best.

[ZrowsN1s]

Exactly.

The Charpy test is vastly over rated when it comes to knife blades, I don't consider them relevent overall due to the large variation in heat treating etc.


It's an extremely broad guide at best.

If I may ask, which Spyderco stainless gets your vote for toughest?

[Ankerson]

Exactly.

The Charpy test is vastly over rated when it comes to knife blades, I don't consider them relevent overall due to the large variation in heat treating etc.


It's an extremely broad guide at best.

If I may ask, which Spyderco stainless gets your vote for toughest?

For what purpose?

What geometry?

What knife?

Lots of variables.

For the record I have seen 3V chip and S30V driven through nails with no damage.

Toughness is over rated and vastly over rated when it comes to folders and small fixed blades.

Any steel with fail one of 2 ways, it will either roll or chip.

Heat treatment and geometry have more to do with it than anything.

For swords something like 1080 or L6 would be best.

[ZrowsN1s]

Exactly.

The Charpy test is vastly over rated when it comes to knife blades, I don't consider them relevent overall due to the large variation in heat treating etc.


It's an extremely broad guide at best.

If I may ask, which Spyderco stainless gets your vote for toughest?

For what purpose?

What geometry?

What knife?

Lots of variables.

For the record I have seen 3V chip and S30V driven through nails with no damage.

Toughness is over rated and vastly over rated when it comes to folders and small fixed blades.

Any steel with fail one of 2 ways, it will either roll or chip.

Heat treatment and geometry have more to do with it than anything.

For swords something like 1080 or L6 would be best.

:D I see your point. Thank you for answering.

Without putting too much thought into it off the top of your head for a PM 2 or Para 3 what steels get your vote for:

Best edge retention cutting cardboard.
and
Best for chopping bamboo.

[Ankerson]

Exactly.

The Charpy test is vastly over rated when it comes to knife blades, I don't consider them relevent overall due to the large variation in heat treating etc.


It's an extremely broad guide at best.

If I may ask, which Spyderco stainless gets your vote for toughest?

For what purpose?

What geometry?

What knife?

Lots of variables.

For the record I have seen 3V chip and S30V driven through nails with no damage.

Toughness is over rated and vastly over rated when it comes to folders and small fixed blades.

Any steel with fail one of 2 ways, it will either roll or chip.

Heat treatment and geometry have more to do with it than anything.

For swords something like 1080 or L6 would be best.

:D I see your point. Thank you for answering.

Without putting to much thought into it off the top of your head for a PM 2 or Para 3 what steels get your vote for:

Best edge retention cutting cardboard.
and
Best for chopping bamboo.

S110V is best on cardboard from my testing.

Any steel can cut bamboo.

[ZrowsN1s]

Thanks!

[Pelagic]

The toughness of s30v seems to be often overlooked. My buck vantage pro, which is run at a higher rockwell than most s30v blades can handle quite a bit before any damage is seen.

[Bodog]

The toughness of s30v seems to be often overlooked. My buck vantage pro, which is run at a higher rockwell than most s30v blades can handle quite a bit before any damage is seen.

No it's not. It is normally pretty incomparable to steels that have higher toughness, if you really need that. When you need it, you'll know it. Otherwise anything that can cut cardboard well will do. And when you find a steel that can handle what you need it to, you don't go back to steels like s30v or s110v. It's a lifestyle thing and nothing is wrong with any of it. I just don't like hearing that s30v or s110v is tough enough for anyone and everyone no matter what because they can cut cables and staples and car doors like anything else. They can't.

Maybe it's subjective and a lot of us are guilty of it. Who knows, but just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should or that the tool they're using is the best at anything. I remember using no name steel back in the day and it could do a lot before any damage was seen, too.

And as far as charpy testing, etc., i have a hard time believing spyderco would invest in this stuff if it wasn't valid for knife blades no matter who it is saying it's worthless. Aside from spyderco, having to do with their own production knives, then i would listen. Otherwise random testing is an individual thing. 3V for one might be junk for them, worth its weight in gold for another. Same with rex121. One man's trash is another's treasure.

[shunsui]

:D
https://youtu.be/-MxCDbAW638

[Bodog]

:D
https://youtu.be/-MxCDbAW638

Do you know that's a legitimate spyderco military in s30v with bright orange handles?

[shunsui]

Do you know that's a legitimate spyderco military in s30v with bright orange handles?

I don't know. I only have a strange compulsion to run out and vote for Trump.

[Bodog]

Do you know that's a legitimate spyderco military in s30v with bright orange handles?

I don't know. I only have a strange compulsion to run out and vote for Trump.

Lol, classic

[Pelagic]

The toughness of s30v seems to be often overlooked. My buck vantage pro, which is run at a higher rockwell than most s30v blades can handle quite a bit before any damage is seen.

No it's not. It is normally pretty incomparable to steels that have higher toughness, if you really need that. When you need it, you'll know it. Otherwise anything that can cut cardboard well will do. And when you find a steel that can handle what you need it to, you don't go back to steels like s30v or s110v. It's a lifestyle thing and nothing is wrong with any of it. I just don't like hearing that s30v or s110v is tough enough for anyone and everyone no matter what because they can cut cables and staples and car doors like anything else. They can't.

Maybe it's subjective and a lot of us are guilty of it. Who knows, but just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should or that the tool they're using is the best at anything. I remember using no name steel back in the day and it could do a lot before any damage was seen, too.

And as far as charpy testing, etc., i have a hard time believing spyderco would invest in this stuff if it wasn't valid for knife blades no matter who it is saying it's worthless. Aside from spyderco, having to do with their own production knives, then i would listen. Otherwise random testing is an individual thing. 3V for one might be junk for them, worth its weight in gold for another. Same with rex121. One man's trash is another's treasure.

I was referring to stainless steels (I'm not comparing it to s7 lol), and your opinion pretty much backs mine. What you laid out is definitely the general consensus on the toughness of s30v... it is overlooked. I was just saying that I am impressed with it.