Native 5 FRN vs. Seki FRN vs Manix 2 FRCP

[steelcity16]

Can anyone confirm that the Native 5 uses the same formula of FRN as used in the Seki models? I know that the Native edges are more squared off and the overall look and feel is of flatter scales, but does the actual material look and feel the same as the Seki models?

I know the Manix 2 is using FRCP, so why FRCP on the Manix 2 and FRN on the Native 5? So for instance if you bought the Manix 2 in Maxamet you would get FRCP scales and if you bought the Native 5 in Maxamet you would get FRN scales. Seems odd.

Which do you prefer? FRCP or FRN?

[attila]

I like the Seki FRN due to the Manix FRCP being smoother and, therefore, more slick when moist/greasy/oily. I wonder if Golden FRN is the same as Seki FRN.

My old C41 Native's FRN is somewhere in between, but it's also got almost a decade of wear on it.

[The Deacon]

I doubt if the FRN is exactly the same. Would make more logical sense for Golden and Seki to each use local sources, so the Nylon and Fiberglass may both be different brands. Am sure the Nylon/Glass ratio is roughly the same.

As for FRCP, I think that's used on the Manix 2 for the "gimmick factor". Some folks here wanted transparent, FRCP allows it. Personally, I don't like it. Think transparent handles make a knife look like a kiddie toy. It also feels more brittle than FRN to me.

[Mastermachetier]

I think I am one of the only few that loves how the manix 2 FRCP feels. I have the s110v version and I can't keep it out of my hands.

[ZrowsN1s]

Looking at my Dfly and Native 5, the only thing I notice is that the Golden FRN is ever so slightly smoother to the touch than the SEKI. Barely noticeable.

[olywa]

I'm a fan of FRCP as well. Just wish we'd see more transparent variations. Maybe put a black DLC out with the transparent FRCP?

[nicked.onaut]

From one of my posts on the "See/Raise" thread:

>>>>
The Michael Walker Lightweight is one of those Princely "Formerly-known-as" models in the 1999 cleanup. This one went from C37(PSBK) to C22(PSBK).

At least some of the C37s carried the Zytel label, which was not seen in the new classification.
Has anyone compiled any lists of Zytel-labeled Spydercos? I have others, but have never kept track of them.



Zytel of course is the DuPont trademarked product which comes in many varieties, used in many products.
It has been used in other US-made Spydercos such as the Native. Sal has indicated usage of FRN from other makers, including Grivory for knives made in Seki.

"Post by sal » Thu Jun 21, 2001 7:54 am
Hi Carlos. We've been using Grivory for our FRN models made in Seki since 1990.

sal"

>>>


And:

"Post by sal » Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:51 am
Some info to share.

Zytel is a trademark of Dupont and refers to a nylon based material that is capable of receiving fiberglass as a reinforcement.

It seemed that everyone was calling all FRN materials "Zytel" which, while probally just ignorance, is unfair to Dupont, deceptive and illegal.

FRN stands for Fiberglasss Reinforced Nylon. It is a term that Spyderco made up some years ago to differentiate other FRN materials from Dupont's Zytel, which was a trademarked name.

Lexan has a very high strength but only for a while. In our testing, we found that age and sunlight eventually caused Lexan to become brittle.

Spyderco's USA made Native is made from Dupont Zytel. Our FRN handles made in other countries are other brands of FRN.

sal"

HTH
ttfn
a n.on

[abbazaba]

From BF regarding FRN vs FRCP:

Hi Powernoodle,

The CP is new, and offers more of what we want in a knife. It's tougher, stronger, has more color capability and is not significantly more expensive.

In fact the strength was surprising when we broke the light weight Manix. I have a black one in my pocket right now. We'll use the same material for the light weight Native 5.

sal

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/mr- ... t-11995448

[Mastermachetier]

From BF regarding FRN vs FRCP:

Hi Powernoodle,

The CP is new, and offers more of what we want in a knife. It's tougher, stronger, has more color capability and is not significantly more expensive.

In fact the strength was surprising when we broke the light weight Manix. I have a black one in my pocket right now. We'll use the same material for the light weight Native 5.

sal

https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/mr- ... t-11995448

thanks for the clarification. I have been sitting here comparing the FRN on my delica and dragonfly to the FRCP on my manix 2 lw s110v. I think the FRCP looks "sharper" the bi-directional texture on it is more defined and crisper feeling. I think overall i prefer the feeling of the FRCP at least on the non see through versions. I have not touched one of those yet.

[steelcity16]

Very interesting. I did see a few of these quotes in archived threads. I guess I just need to get both the Manix and the Native in Maxamet and compare each scale to my Sekis and to each other. Might even need to throw a translucent blue Manix in the mix to check that one out! :D

I am also interested in whether there is any potential for future degradation of any of these scale materials, G10 included. We all know plastic and rubber dry out, get brittle, and crack over time. It would be ashame to sock away a bunch of knives in a safe for 40+ years and then have a handle crack when my future grandson goes to use one. Or have a buyer complain about a broken scale when my future grandson sells one! I wonder if FRN, FRCP, or G10 are susceptible to this issue?

[Mastermachetier]

Very interesting. I did see a few of these quotes in archived threads. I guess I just need to get both the Manix and the Native in Maxamet and compare each scale to my Sekis and to each other. Might even need to throw a translucent blue Manix in the mix to check that one out! :D

I am also interested in whether there is any potential for future degradation of any of these scale materials, G10 included. We all know plastic and rubber dry out, get brittle, and crack over time. It would be ashame to sock away a bunch of knives in a safe for 40+ years and then have a handle crack when my future grandson goes to use one. Or have a buyer complain about a broken scale when my future grandson sells one! I wonder if FRN, FRCP, or G10 are susceptible to this issue?

I am not sure about g10 degradation, but it will certainly get smoother over time and in my experience way more then the FRN/FRCP. I have seen some older spydercos though like first gen delicas and enduras, they seem to have aged very well the handles didn't feel "degraded" at all. I think as long as your knife doesn't sit in the sun for 10 years or in water you will be alright.

[arty]

I have had knives with FRN or Zytel handles for more than 40 years with no obvious degradation. It is good stuff. Remington made their nylon model 66 rifle with a Zytel receiver. I don't have one, but they made lots of them and I am not aware of any problems with the 22 LR.
FRN is tough, and lasts, but I have no idea about FRCP.

[The Deacon]

Very interesting. I did see a few of these quotes in archived threads. I guess I just need to get both the Manix and the Native in Maxamet and compare each scale to my Sekis and to each other. Might even need to throw a translucent blue Manix in the mix to check that one out! :D

I am also interested in whether there is any potential for future degradation of any of these scale materials, G10 included. We all know plastic and rubber dry out, get brittle, and crack over time. It would be ashame to sock away a bunch of knives in a safe for 40+ years and then have a handle crack when my future grandson goes to use one. Or have a buyer complain about a broken scale when my future grandson sells one! I wonder if FRN, FRCP, or G10 are susceptible to this issue?

As you noted, plastics degrade over time. How long is anybody's guess. Celluloid knife scales took nearly 100 years to start showing serious degradation. Nylon has been around a long time and, AFAIK, no reports yet of any issues other than possible yellowing of light colors. I suspect FRN, FRCP, G-10, Micarta, and CF composites will all go down the same road as celluloid eventually, but "eventually" may be several hundred years away. Another thing to consider is that sunlight, and specifically UV, is a major contributor to plastics degrading. This is going to be most obvious with Lexan since it's major uses are for things line windows and aircraft canopies that are exposed to sunlight every day. Knives, especially those kept in safes, don't see a whole lot of sun.