Question for Sal and Spyderco .

[harronek]

I've been wondering lately about the steel options offered in the Delica range of knives , but I suppose it is also relevant to many other models .
My question is how come for example the Delica is offered in both VG 10 and ZDP189 as standard production models , but the other Sprint run Steels Super Blue , Hap40 aren't.
I understand that a sprint run is supposed to be special , but it intrigues me that ZDP189 was included as standard
If those other steels were available as standard I'm sure they would sell in respectable numbers .
Maybe after a few years have gone past from the release of the sprint run a standard version could be released with different scale colour to differentiate it ?
I'm just curious I guess .

Ken

[yablanowitz]

I'm not Sal or Spyderco, but I can tell you that ZDP-189 started off as a Sprint Run steel and was later put into regular production by popular demand. I don't know what all the criteria for the decision are, but I'm sure that other steels could become regular production if they meet them.

[elena86]

I can only dream of Cruwear becoming regular production steel :)

[SpyderEdgeForever]

If Cruwear becomes a regular production steel for use on the Spyderco knives, what types of properties and uses should we expect? What would a Cruwear Endura be like?

[elena86]

If Cruwear becomes a regular production steel for use on the Spyderco knives, what types of properties and uses should we expect? What would a Cruwear Endura be like?

Almost perfect balance between toughness, edge retention, edge stability and ease of sharpening, plus a decent corossion resistence.Best allaround working steel out there IMO.

[sal]

Hi Harronek,

The Delica is a mainstream model. The mainstream prefers stainless steels for general use. ZDP is a stainless steel (though not as corrosion resistant as VG-10). As Yab mentioned, the market wanted ZDP as a regular steel and in a Delica, the cost is more affordable. However, I should mention that Hitachi plans a large increase in the cost of ZDP and we'll see how that affects demand.

HAP40 and Super Blue are more of an "afi" steel desired by steel junky's. We've not had many requests to make HAP and SB mainstream.

sal

[SpyderNut]

...We've not had many requests to make HAP and SB mainstream.

sal

Hi Sal,

I am willing to bet a pretty decent number of folks here could help make some requests for mainstream HAP40 and SB. :D

[harronek]

Hi Harronek,

The Delica is a mainstream model. The mainstream prefers stainless steels for general use. ZDP is a stainless steel (though not as corrosion resistant as VG-10). As Yab mentioned, the market wanted ZDP as a regular steel and in a Delica, the cost is more affordable. However, I should mention that Hitachi plans a large increase in the cost of ZDP and we'll see how that affects demand.

HAP40 and Super Blue are more of an "afi" steel desired by steel junky's. We've not had many requests to make HAP and SB mainstream.

sal

Can I start by saying that in this modern world to have the " Main Man " of a company respond to my lame questions is amazing and an absolute credit to you and your company .

Your post goes a long way to explain the reasons why things are done the way they are .
How many names would it take on a petition to persuade you to make these steels or even something different that may be on the horizon available in standard production runs ? :)
For example how did the market tell you it wanted ZDP 189 ( I'm very glad it did )
Again thanks for the response , I appreciate it .

Ken

[yablanowitz]

I think it started by having a 1200 piece Sprint Run sell out so fast it left a vacuum in the warehouse. :D

Names on a petition does less than a tide of dollars washing over the counters.

[The Deacon]

Hi Harronek,

The Delica is a mainstream model. The mainstream prefers stainless steels for general use. ZDP is a stainless steel (though not as corrosion resistant as VG-10). As Yab mentioned, the market wanted ZDP as a regular steel and in a Delica, the cost is more affordable. However, I should mention that Hitachi plans a large increase in the cost of ZDP and we'll see how that affects demand.

HAP40 and Super Blue are more of an "afi" steel desired by steel junky's. We've not had many requests to make HAP and SB mainstream.

sal

So can I hope there's a chance the Stretch 2 will switch to VG-10 and the FRN Stretch will switch back to it?

[sal]

Hi Harronek,

The Delica is a mainstream model. The mainstream prefers stainless steels for general use. ZDP is a stainless steel (though not as corrosion resistant as VG-10). As Yab mentioned, the market wanted ZDP as a regular steel and in a Delica, the cost is more affordable. However, I should mention that Hitachi plans a large increase in the cost of ZDP and we'll see how that affects demand.

HAP40 and Super Blue are more of an "afi" steel desired by steel junky's. We've not had many requests to make HAP and SB mainstream.

sal

So can I hope there's a chance the Stretch 2 will switch to VG-10 and the FRN Stretch will switch back to it?

That would be my hope as well. The Stretch hasn't grabbed the attention like the Endura and Delica. We've been studying reasons. The drop point shape and the finger choil seem to be the only real differences.

sal

[Cujobob]

Well it's on the upper end in the value line is my guess with the stretch. I would love to see a Super Blue mainstream model if it were possible. While it patinas more than M4, I think the success of M4 as a steel option would indicate super blue would sell well. Plus, nobody else is doing it.

[ChrisinHove]

Hi Harronek,

The Delica is a mainstream model. The mainstream prefers stainless steels for general use. ZDP is a stainless steel (though not as corrosion resistant as VG-10). As Yab mentioned, the market wanted ZDP as a regular steel and in a Delica, the cost is more affordable. However, I should mention that Hitachi plans a large increase in the cost of ZDP and we'll see how that affects demand.

HAP40 and Super Blue are more of an "afi" steel desired by steel junky's. We've not had many requests to make HAP and SB mainstream.

sal

So can I hope there's a chance the Stretch 2 will switch to VG-10 and the FRN Stretch will switch back to it?

That would be my hope as well. The Stretch hasn't grabbed the attention like the Endura and Delica. We've been studying reasons. The drop point shape and the finger choil seem to be the only real differences.

sal

"Nowt queer as folk!"

The drop point and choil are why I prefer it .... oh, and the ergo's that give multitudinous comfortable and effective ways of holding it.

[Leeroy37]

Hi Harronek,

The Delica is a mainstream model. The mainstream prefers stainless steels for general use. ZDP is a stainless steel (though not as corrosion resistant as VG-10). As Yab mentioned, the market wanted ZDP as a regular steel and in a Delica, the cost is more affordable. However, I should mention that Hitachi plans a large increase in the cost of ZDP and we'll see how that affects demand.

HAP40 and Super Blue are more of an "afi" steel desired by steel junky's. We've not had many requests to make HAP and SB mainstream.

sal

So can I hope there's a chance the Stretch 2 will switch to VG-10 and the FRN Stretch will switch back to it?

That would be my hope as well. The Stretch hasn't grabbed the attention like the Endura and Delica. We've been studying reasons. The drop point shape and the finger choil seem to be the only real differences.

sal

The stretch imo is one of the most underrated designs it just plain works simple but effective I love my ZDP and hap40 stretches

[The Deacon]

The Stretch hasn't grabbed the attention like the Endura and Delica. We've been studying reasons. The drop point shape and the finger choil seem to be the only real differences.

sal

I'm ok with the drop point blade, but it could be at least one reason the Stretch does not sell better than it does. Have you given any consideration to the idea of offering the it with a "Military" style straight spined blade as well as the current blade? I know that idea has been floated here several times over the years. I'm thinking you could keep the edge side of the blade the same right up to the point, just give it a straight spine between the point and the top of the hump. I know it's easy for me to say, but it doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult to do since none of the "fitted" areas of the blade are involved, and would give the knife a more "mainstream" look.

[RadioactiveSpyder]

To me, a straight spined Stretch would be basically a FRN PM2. Their handle shapes and size are very, very similar. It seems like the choice to go straight-spined would also crowd the field for the Seki models. The blade shape as it stands now sets it apart distinctly from the Delica and Endura. Just my two cents...

[harronek]

For me the blade shape is not the issue , it's the handle .
I don't want to start a choil war , but I think the " mainstream " don't like choil's ,
me included .
The Delica - Endura line shows that a choiless FRN handle works in the real world and is visually more acceptable to the unknowledgible customer looking at knives in the display case .
Put the Stretch's blade in a Delica - Endura style handle that has been size scaled to suit and watch them fly off the shelves .

Ken

[Sharp Guy]

To me, a straight spined Stretch would be basically a FRN PM2. Their handle shapes and size are very, very similar. It seems like the choice to go straight-spined would also crowd the field for the Seki models. The blade shape as it stands now sets it apart distinctly from the Delica and Endura. Just my two cents...

^ +1!! The blade shape of the Stretch is the main reason I'm considering buying one. I already have several knives with more traditional Spyderco blade shapes (Manix 2's, Sages, Native 5's, Delicas, & a PM2). Now I want something a little different and I find myself becoming attracted to the FRN stretch (along with the GB2). I don't think I'd be interested in a Stretch with a straight spine or a leaf-shaped blade. To me the blade shape is what makes a Stretch a Stretch.

[sal]

The Stretch hasn't grabbed the attention like the Endura and Delica. We've been studying reasons. The drop point shape and the finger choil seem to be the only real differences.

sal

I'm ok with the drop point blade, but it could be at least one reason the Stretch does not sell better than it does. Have you given any consideration to the idea of offering the it with a "Military" style straight spined blade as well as the current blade? I know that idea has been floated here several times over the years. I'm thinking you could keep the edge side of the blade the same right up to the point, just give it a straight spine between the point and the top of the hump. I know it's easy for me to say, but it doesn't seem like it would be all that difficult to do since none of the "fitted" areas of the blade are involved, and would give the knife a more "mainstream" look.

It's been an ongoing discussion for a year or so.

sal

[Surfingringo]

I think the main reason that the Stretch doesn't see the same sales as the Delica/Endura is that it's a little bit ugly. I've never been that concerned with the aesthetics of a knife but even I have never really thought the Stretch was the prettiest girl at the dance. My two hangups with the knife were the heavy drop point and the handle didn't feel just right to me the couple of times I handled one. Based on those two observations, I declined to buy one for a number of years.

Then the hap40 run came and I was enjoying the steel so much I decided to try it in a Stretch. I still didn't like the tip so I did a little grinder (actually sandpaper) work on mine. I ended up with this.


I was so impressed with the change in functionality that I started carrying the knife daily and sure enough, I have fallen in love with the design. Whatever it was that I thought I didn't like about the handle, I have certainly gotten over it. It sits in my hand just perfect now. I can't get the knife out of my pocket now. I carry it everyday over my Delica and pm2 which once dominated my pocket time. I have since smoothed out the angle and left the knife with kind of a semi drop point.


I don't know if its a true "drop point" because the last bit of spine at the tip is still quite straight, I just smoothed out the transition angle. I love the curve/angle of the spine now! As far as the curve on the edge side, its pretty much perfect. Just the right amount of belly in all the right places.


As to Radioactive's point that a straight spine Stretch would kind of be a pm2, here's a pic I took that shows how true that is...at least for the blades. Honestly, I like my modified version of the Stretch better than either. I get the performance of a straight spine at the tip without all that extra steel further back along the spine, thereby keeping the blade less wide. Ahem...I think its a little less ugly too. Sorry Sal, no offense intended. :o