paulwa wrote:Don't have pics of the production version, but here's a couple shots of the solid model that are fairly representative and will hopefully tide you over till the retailers get images:
image.tiff
image.tiff
I think the forum software has issues displaying images that are in TIFF format. Hope you don't mind if I repost your pictures here in PNG format:
Which Knife, A or B? get Both! (and C, D and E) :)
This is a fascinating design! It is one of the few new knives that has really caught my attention. In fact, the more I look at it the more I like it. Beautiful curves, enough belly and point to be a useful office EDC, full flat grind, and the oval closed profile should carry comfortably. The nested comp lock and low ride wire clip seals the deal for me. I'll be grabbing one!
Hans Favourite Spydies: Military, PM2, Shaman, UKPK Others: Victorinox Pioneer, CRK L Sebenza 31, CRK L Inkosi
Alright, time to wrap things up, but first I wanted to thank everyone for their responses, enthusiasm for the design, and general interest level, it’s been great interacting with everyone. Now on to the loose ends…
General info:
So I live in Michigan and the legal length limit here is 3 in (though the wording is a little open to interpretation), I wanted to be able to carry it in pretty much any day-to-day situation, so the blade length is a tad below that limit. I don’t know the exact method Spyderco uses to determine their official specs, especially in a design like the Ouroboros with a sizable choil and a sloping fore-end to the handle scales, so I won’t bother posting my measurements since they could easily be different from the soon-to-be released information. The model uses VG-10 steel and will be made in Japan. There are inlaid steel liners on both sides of the knife that travel the full length of the handle but not across the entire width. I did this on purpose for the maker/modder folks out there, leaving a little ‘meat on the bone’ so to speak, so the swell of butt end could be tweaked a bit for those that love to tinker and tune, or if the design just doesn’t fit their hand. For those that are even more adventurous and skilled, the blade could also be reground into a wharncliffe-like straight edge… which would make for a cool variant. It’s got a wide, full-flat ground leaf blade that I believe is around 3 mm thick (again, official specs may vary). I plan on using it for a small EDC, but there was more than a bit of design-direction gleaned from small, choiled fix blade palm skinners. I’m not much of a hunter, but it is designed to be a dexterous little knife, and dressing game is a dexterous chore… maybe some of you forumites that are avid hunters can weigh in on this when the Ouroboros is released into the wild. It might also be useful for emergency self defense (folks have commented on the shared traits with the Lava, which is supposed to be a capable SD tool), but I have absolutely no experience on this topic, so I won’t say one way or another. As far as when it might actually drop, I have no clue, but trust Spyderco to release it to the public when it’s ready. And trust me, no one has been patiently waiting for this to be commercially available longer than I have.
Process comments:
So, I use a CAD program to design all my knives, and each one goes through quite a bit of virtual refinement before I go any further. Then, I look at knife making part suppliers and try to identify real hardware that can work with the design, and order all those components. I’ll then turn my 2D drawings into 3D models once I sure the hardware is appropriate, and I use 3D printing service providers to make the blade,handle, liners, backspacers, everything else that makes up the knife. I’ll then put everything together and try and end up with a fully functional plastic prototype. Detent strength and lock-bar stiffness are two areas where the prototypes are lacking due to materials, but they seem to be enough to convince Spyderco there may be merit to a submission. I also include digital drawings of the various parts to make it easier on their prototype maker (who does an awesome job converting the plastic ‘toys’ into reality). Then I send it in to Spyderco. For my first submission, I found the old threads here on the forum that give the appropriate contact information for such things, and sent everything. The Ouroboros is my first submission, and went though a lot of evolution. There was initially a non-locking version that evolved into what will be available for sale. All in all, it was a great experience, and I feel like they helped me grow as a designer as they guided me through the various iterations. So now, I can work much more quickly and generate designs that are much more easily adapted for production.
So that’s about it, but I’ll still frequent this thread to answer new questions. It’s been so much fun hearing from knife aficionados, it's pretty much guaranteed I’ll be posting again soon.
I'd like to try one of these ASAP. I'm already a fan of leaf shaped blades, wire clips, VG-10, and deep choils, so it's right down my alley. I also found the description of the design and submission process very informative and interesting -- thanks very much for letting us in on it.
K-390 on hand: Mule Team 17, Police 4 G-10, Endela (burlap micarta), Endela backup, Endura (canvas micarta), Straight Stretch (now blade-swapped with G-10 Stretch), Delica Wharncliffe, Dragonfly Wharncliffe, & Dragonfly Wharncliffe shorty mod Note to self: Less is more.
Thank Paul for bringing this brand new design to us Spyderco enthusiasts.
Actually there are a lot of interesting characteristics worth mention on this model.
50/50 finger choil. I've always been a fan of it since I met it on Para2, which is my first Spyderco. It adds so much comfort and control to the blade, which dramatically fits the designated purpose of the Ouroboros design—light to mid duty EDC, food prep, emergency defense, etc..
The overall shape in the closed position reminds me of a Civilian. Maybe just a coincidence, but the sleek overall shape just delights me so much. I even fall into a rhapsody of modding it into a Reverse-S!
Leaf shape plus FFG on the blade. They are almost signature elements for Spyderco right now, and I am not even surprised to see these present on the Ouroboros.
Compression lock. By far my favorite lock type from Spyderco (what a shame that I haven't had the chance of playing with a bolt lock on Sage3), and it seems to be the best, if not the only, option to maintain lock strength with such a deep choil. Guessed the locking bar would be fairly similar to Szabo folder and Junior.
All above add up to raise my interest on the model to a considerable level, and my only concern is, "Please jimp the spine!"
Last edited by funghiman on Sat Jan 30, 2016 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ahh, jimping, I figured there would be a contingent of people that would be calling for this. I tend to go either completely smooth or aggressively and liberally jimped with my designs, and the Ouroboros from the former camp. It doesn't really need it on the choil and inside of the handle, the grip there is about as secure as it can get; but I understand the argument for adding it on the spine. In the end I decided against it; for the intended use of the knife I didn't think it added much more control, and the spine is so proud of the handle when closed that it would catch and potentially saw on the lip of the pocket when drawing or inserting the knife. The good news is, it's easier to add jimping than remove it, and if you're serious about the reverse-s mod (which looks amazing and would still be shielded by the handle when closed, at least when I mocked it up in drawings for alternate blade profiles), jimping it yourself is doable, if not ideal. But thanks for the input, if there's enough call for that change, and the model is popular enough, it could be a future enhancement.
Oh, boy. This looks like it may be the miniature chef's knife for me that I had hoped for in the Junior (which is sized too big for my !$&$* jurisdiction).
Does having so little material near the pivot cause any difficulties with flex?
Well, initially I couldn't help thinking it was very similar to a Dialex Junior, but now the more I look at it, it's more like a Lava on steroids. I really like designs that lock your hand into the grip, so pending that this knife fits my hand nicely, it'll be on my purchase list for sure.
Howdy again all, just thought I'd share a bit more info pertinent to the concerns about handle flex. The knife actually has two blade stops, one for the open position, denoted by the external screw, and a second captured stop for the closed position. It's located just above the opening hole (when closed) and down from the lock bar cutout. The large choil allowed me to put a stop in a place where most knives could not have one, and creates three substantial bridges (pivot, open stop, and closed stop) in a triangular pattern between the liners and scales. This tripod design element adds quite a bit of structural stability, so even though the handle is narrow in this area, it will be as solid and stiff as a much bulkier, conventionally designed knife.
Very interesting that the choil allowed you to tuck in an extra stabilizing point there, Paul. Thanks for that design note.
It's just so danged pretty I would probably have to get one even if I could only use it to open envelopes and cut string, but sounds like it should be able to handle standard Spyderco-level EDC tasks with reasonable aplomb. And oh, that belly...
I have been watching your designs at the Spyderco table for the last few years. I learned more from the non-locking style Ouroboros design than most other knives. I did the original Introvert prototype after playing with your knife because your knife showed me a new way to look at locks. You clearly think about the locking mechanism and blade portion as interplaying in a way that most other designers do not.
Your use of negative space internal to the knife is second to none. I spend about an hour a year dissecting your knives, and harassing the Glessers about them. It is nice to be able to directly contact you via the forum. Keep up the excellent use of positive and negative space! I will be buying a few of your knives, and I look forward to seeing how you play with pin position as you keep moving forward.
Anybody got any news, rumors, speculation, or idle chit chat about this knife and when it might make another appearance?
K-390 on hand: Mule Team 17, Police 4 G-10, Endela (burlap micarta), Endela backup, Endura (canvas micarta), Straight Stretch (now blade-swapped with G-10 Stretch), Delica Wharncliffe, Dragonfly Wharncliffe, & Dragonfly Wharncliffe shorty mod Note to self: Less is more.
What an interesting and sexy design!!
Loving this one and can't wait to nab one!
But how absolutely awesome is it that the designer gets on the forum to explain the thought behind the knife, and the process of getting to production??? Too cool and a big thumbs up for Paul!!
Joe
Just noticed that KC is taking pre-orders at $167.97 and say, "Expected August/September 2016." Still no specs.
K-390 on hand: Mule Team 17, Police 4 G-10, Endela (burlap micarta), Endela backup, Endura (canvas micarta), Straight Stretch (now blade-swapped with G-10 Stretch), Delica Wharncliffe, Dragonfly Wharncliffe, & Dragonfly Wharncliffe shorty mod Note to self: Less is more.
