Corn in ancient Egypt?

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SpyderEdgeForever
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Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby SpyderEdgeForever » Mon Dec 21, 2015 6:17 pm

This mural was found in Egypt. Does that look like American-style corn to you?

[attachment=0]EgyptianCornMural.jpg
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EgyptianCornMural.jpg

JAfromMN
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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby JAfromMN » Mon Dec 21, 2015 7:17 pm

Looks like corn to me.


I can't think of what else it could be.

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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby RexGig0 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:22 pm

No, not really.

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Dr. Snubnose
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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby Dr. Snubnose » Mon Dec 21, 2015 8:36 pm

Yep.....Most definitely Corn. Egyptian maize (corn) dates back to 4000 BC. Reapers cut the ripe corn with wooden sickles edged with sharp flints. Women and children followed behind the reapers to collect any fallen ears of corn. Cattle were used to trampled over the cut corn to remove the grain from the ears. Then the grain was tossed into the air so the breeze blew the light useless chaff away.....Doc:)

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Donut
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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby Donut » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:06 pm

It sort of looks like a carrot, but I probably couldn't draw any better, especially if I had crappy drawing materials to do it with. I suspect they didn't have much better than crayons to draw this stuff with.
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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby OldHoosier62 » Mon Dec 21, 2015 9:50 pm

Dr. Snubnose wrote:Yep.....Most definitely Corn. Egyptian maize (corn) dates back to 4000 BC. Reapers cut the ripe corn with wooden sickles edged with sharp flints. Women and children followed behind the reapers to collect any fallen ears of corn. Cattle were used to trampled over the cut corn to remove the grain from the ears. Then the grain was tossed into the air so the breeze blew the light useless chaff away.....Doc:)
Ummm, is that the "voice of experience" talking or just a scholarly explanation of the process??? Hmmmmm??





:eek: :D :rolleyes: Sorry Doc...I just had to let my inner smarta** run loose for a moment. ;) Forgive me, please.

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Dr. Snubnose
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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby Dr. Snubnose » Mon Dec 21, 2015 11:27 pm

Forgiven.....but you are astute....I'm am filled will useless trivia information....that no one needs to know.....ever! LOL Doc:)

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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby demoncase » Tue Dec 22, 2015 3:54 am

Could be corn.
Could be a bunch of other stuff- Looks to me like the rhizome base of a bulrush or lily-pad reed, which were milled to make bread for 1000s of years all across the ancient world.
Could equally show winter barley or wheat (Long green stems above a clubbed seed head)- both of which were farmed in Egypt.

Got to remember that many of these paintings are figurative rather than literal- there is always an attempt to show what something does or it's behavior as well as what it is. In some cases both parts of the lifecycle of a plant are shown at once- something impossible in reality.
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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby kbuzbee » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:35 am

demoncase wrote: Looks to me like the rhizome base of a bulrush or lily-pad reed, which were milled to make bread for 1000s of years all across the ancient world.
Why in the world would you eat a bulrush if you have corn? Roasted corn on the cob, creamed corn, corn tortillas, corn bread, corn fritters, corn salsa.... (I like corn, btw)

Ken

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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby awa54 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 9:37 am

From Wikipedia:

"Most historians believe maize was domesticated in the Tehuacan Valley of Mexico.[3] The Olmec and Mayans cultivated it in numerous varieties throughout Mesoamerica, cooked, ground or processed through nixtamalization. Beginning about 2500 BC, the crop spread through much of the Americas.[4] The region developed a trade network based on surplus and varieties of maize crops. After European contact with the Americas in the late 15th and early 16th centuries, explorers and traders carried maize back to Europe and introduced it to other countries"

also on Wikipedia:

"The word "corn" outside North America, Australia, and New Zealand refers to any cereal crop, its meaning understood to vary geographically to refer to the local staple.[11][12] In the United States,[11] Canada,[13] Australia, and New Zealand,[citation needed] corn primarily means maize; this usage started as a shortening of "Indian corn".[11] "Indian corn" primarily means maize (the staple grain of indigenous Americans), but can refer more specifically to multicolored "flint corn" used for decoration.[14]"


it does look like it could be stored in a big pointy grain silo though ;)
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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby Spydergirl88 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 10:47 am

awa54 wrote: it does look like it could be stored in a big pointy grain silo though ;)
Lol that guy is crazyyyyyyyyy :p
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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby demoncase » Tue Dec 22, 2015 12:50 pm

kbuzbee wrote:
demoncase wrote: Looks to me like the rhizome base of a bulrush or lily-pad reed, which were milled to make bread for 1000s of years all across the ancient world.
Why in the world would you eat a bulrush if you have corn? Roasted corn on the cob, creamed corn, corn tortillas, corn bread, corn fritters, corn salsa.... (I like corn, btw)

Ken
Why?....Here's my reasoning:

1. It's a serious longshot that the Egyptians had corn....Like Thunderball-on-the-lottery-twice-in-a-row longshot ;)

2. An imported grain stuff would be 'high status' food for the posh lot at the top. Humble mudlarks like me would scrape by on what we could grub up....which generally means 'what no-one else wants to eat'

3. Ancient Egypt's 3 seasons centred around the flood plain of the Nile- the 'Inundation' meaning that it was impossible to have year round fields of corn waving in the breeze. As they'd be underwater for a third of the year.

4. It's only with a real understanding of chemical properties of food in 20th century that we consume food for real nutrition and/or pleasure.
While that's always been true about the enjoyment part- Up until the early mid 19th century there was an additional need to consume certain foods to demonstrate status (Witness the middle ages recipes with meat crammed with so much sugar and spices you'd think they were deserts...These were to show you could afford the more expensive imported items) and for dubious medicinal benefits linked to astrology and other hocum- (Doctrine Of Signatures is a great case in point.).....Some bright spark claims that eating bulrush rhizomes helps with sore feet because they look a bit like your toes and they'd all be eating them for medicine.
"Ugh, no, forget the glass, Woodhouse, just give me the pitcher... for I am a sinner in the hands of an angry god.

Bloody Mary, full of vodka, blessed are you among cocktails. Pray for me now and at the hour of my death... which I hope is soon. Amen"

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noseoil
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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby noseoil » Tue Dec 22, 2015 5:09 pm

Egypt was one of the first cultures to have a surplus of grain (corn, wheat, oats, barley or Puffa-puffa rice?). Along with the grain surplus storage came the rats & mice. They found that cats were a pretty good idea around the silo for rodent control. Domestic cats were an offshoot of grain, trade & necessity, as the trade routes were established out of Egypt.

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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby DougC-3 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 4:38 am

I'm no expert, but, no, it doesn't look like corn to me. I was lucky enough to know one of the men who discovered the prehistoric maize in Tehuacan and Oaxaca, Mexico (C. Earle Smith, one of my wife's advisors) and saw the specimens in Tehuacan. The corn grown in the New World at that time was much smaller than the plant in the picture seems to me. The big hybrids were developed in Europe in the mid twentieth century. The middle plant in the left picture looks like it may have an immature inflorescence coming out of the top of it, and, if that's true, it couldn't have an ear of corn (another inflorescence) coming out of the bottom... but there's not much in the picture to get true perspective from, the pictures look stylized as Demon implied, I don't know jack about Egyptian plants, let alone the ones growing there thousands of years ago, and there's a heck of a lot we don't know about ancient Egypt ;)
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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby kbuzbee » Wed Dec 23, 2015 8:58 am

demoncase wrote:
kbuzbee wrote:
demoncase wrote: Looks to me like the rhizome base of a bulrush or lily-pad reed, which were milled to make bread for 1000s of years all across the ancient world.
Why in the world would you eat a bulrush if you have corn? Roasted corn on the cob, creamed corn, corn tortillas, corn bread, corn fritters, corn salsa.... (I like corn, btw)

Ken
Why?....Here's my reasoning:
Okay, I give. It was just a poor attempt at humor (my wife reacts to my jokes the same way)

Ken

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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby DougC-3 » Wed Dec 23, 2015 10:47 am

kbuzbee wrote: Okay, I give. It was just a poor attempt at humor (my wife reacts to my jokes the same way)

Ken
I think we can always use a some humor, even if it's a little corny....
:spyder: :cool:
Polysyllabic palaver poorly purveys perspicacity, so sesquipedalian syllogisms seldom signify significant sapience ;) :spyder:

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Re: Corn in ancient Egypt?

Postby kbuzbee » Wed Dec 23, 2015 11:29 am

DougC-3 wrote:
kbuzbee wrote: Okay, I give. It was just a poor attempt at humor (my wife reacts to my jokes the same way)

Ken
I think we can always use a some humor, even if it's a little corny....
Nice!

Ken


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