Steel Info Request: SUS 410

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Liquid Cobra
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Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby Liquid Cobra » Thu May 28, 2015 6:51 pm

I tried looking up the properties of this steel but I'm pretty lousy at deciphering the steel charts n such.

It looks like SUS 410 is being used as the laminate steel on the Endura/Delica Hap40 Sprints. Does anyone know anything about SUS 410? How tough is it, how stainless is it? Specifically, is it harder than 420J2?

Thanks!
Most recently acquired: Amalgam, Para 3 CTS-XHP, Kapara, Yojimbo 2 M4, Paramilitary 2 CPM-20CV, Paramilitary 2 Rex 45, Rhino, Nirvana!! Spyderhawk, Paramilitary 2 Maxamet, Para 3 Maxamet, Para 3 S90V, Native 5 CPM 154/S90V, Para 3 M390, Paramilitary 2 Maxamet, Paramilitary 2 M390, Positron, Para 3 Cruwear, Shaman
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araneae
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Re: Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby araneae » Thu May 28, 2015 7:02 pm

Well it is 10 less than 420 and has a couple more S's and a U. Hard to say if that makes it harder or not.
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tvenuto
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Re: Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby tvenuto » Thu May 28, 2015 7:37 pm

I would imagine it's more stainless and more soft than the HAP40, otherwise I wouldn't see the point in using it as a clad. Also a general note that increasing hardness can decrease toughness, if by toughness you mean the material property. Is the photo of the bent SB Endura on your mind?

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Re: Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby Liquid Cobra » Thu May 28, 2015 8:20 pm

tvenuto wrote:I would imagine it's more stainless and more soft than the HAP40, otherwise I wouldn't see the point in using it as a clad. Also a general note that increasing hardness can decrease toughness, if by toughness you mean the material property. Is the photo of the bent SB Endura on your mind?
No I'm interested in its comparison to 420J2 as that's what's currently being used on knives like the Caly 3.5, super blue delica/endura etc..
Most recently acquired: Amalgam, Para 3 CTS-XHP, Kapara, Yojimbo 2 M4, Paramilitary 2 CPM-20CV, Paramilitary 2 Rex 45, Rhino, Nirvana!! Spyderhawk, Paramilitary 2 Maxamet, Para 3 Maxamet, Para 3 S90V, Native 5 CPM 154/S90V, Para 3 M390, Paramilitary 2 Maxamet, Paramilitary 2 M390, Positron, Para 3 Cruwear, Shaman
Grail Paramilitary 2 M390 X 2! ACHIEVED!!

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Re: Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby Cliff Stamp » Thu May 28, 2015 9:36 pm

410 is a low carbon martensite stainless steel, C < 0.15 %. 420 is considered the high carbon version of 410 as it has a minimum of 0.15% carbon. 420HC is consider in the knife industry as the high carbon version of 420. 410 is more corrosion resistant than 420, tougher and easier to grind/machine. This also means it is weaker and easier to bend/deform.

However even 420 in a clad is so soft/weak that you can bend them pretty easily even in heavy cutting if you tend to twist/pry in heavy materials like thick plastic. The first time you use one of them you likely are going to bend it if you are used to Western style knives and fairly rigorous cutting. For Japanese style knives, such uses would be consider fairly abusive.

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tvenuto
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Re: Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby tvenuto » Fri May 29, 2015 4:04 am

Liquid Cobra wrote:No I'm interested in its comparison to 420J2 as that's what's currently being used on knives like the Caly 3.5, super blue delica/endura etc..
Ha ok. I'm aware of that. Surely you have some outcome in mind? Some reason you wonder why it's (got the potential to be run) harder than 420J2?

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Re: Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby Johnnie1801 » Fri May 29, 2015 4:26 am

So long as the 410 doesn't scratch up as much as the 420j I'll be happy :) I'm looking forward to these knives but I'm not sure whether to get the Delica or Endura, I don't think I can afford both :(
Currently enjoying Spyderco's in - S30V, VG10, Super Blue, Cruwear x4, CTS XHP, S110V x2, M4 x3, S35VN, CTS 204P x2, S90V, HAP 40, K390, RWL34, MAXAMET, ZDP 189, REX 45


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tvenuto
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Re: Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby tvenuto » Fri May 29, 2015 6:15 am

Cliff Stamp wrote:410 is more corrosion resistant than 420, tougher and easier to grind/machine.
If this is true...
Johnnie1801 wrote:So long as the 410 doesn't scratch up as much as the 420j I'll be happy :)
...then this is not.

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Re: Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby Liquid Cobra » Fri May 29, 2015 8:58 am

And that's what I'm afraid of.
Most recently acquired: Amalgam, Para 3 CTS-XHP, Kapara, Yojimbo 2 M4, Paramilitary 2 CPM-20CV, Paramilitary 2 Rex 45, Rhino, Nirvana!! Spyderhawk, Paramilitary 2 Maxamet, Para 3 Maxamet, Para 3 S90V, Native 5 CPM 154/S90V, Para 3 M390, Paramilitary 2 Maxamet, Paramilitary 2 M390, Positron, Para 3 Cruwear, Shaman
Grail Paramilitary 2 M390 X 2! ACHIEVED!!

Invective
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Re: Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby Invective » Fri May 29, 2015 9:17 am

http://zknives.com/knives/steels/steelg ... hrn=1&gm=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They look to be pretty similar, but SUS410 has less carbon and molybdenum.

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Re: Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby PayneTrain » Fri May 29, 2015 6:30 pm

tvenuto wrote:Is the photo of the bent SB Endura on your mind?
I can't get it out of mine, and for that reason I am going Delica. I will be less tempted to abuse it if it's a smaller blade. You shoulda seen what I did to my Military the other day...

Scratches aren't that big of a concern to me, which is good since there will surely be many on such a soft steel. I wonder why they used it over 420. Cost, or is it somehow more compatible with HAP40?

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Re: Steel Info Request: SUS 410

Postby tvenuto » Fri May 29, 2015 7:17 pm

PayneTrain wrote:I can't get it out of mine, and for that reason I am going Delica. I will be less tempted to abuse it if it's a smaller blade. You shoulda seen what I did to my Military the other day...

Scratches aren't that big of a concern to me, which is good since there will surely be many on such a soft steel. I wonder why they used it over 420. Cost, or is it somehow more compatible with HAP40?
Yea I haven't had any problems with my SB Delica, and I've used it pretty extensively, so I was pretty surprised by that photo. I definitely wouldn't consider myself a "hard user" though, definitely no prying. I'm also not concerned with scratches.

I would imagine it has something to do with heat-treat compatibility, but I trust spyderco. The G10 SG run was delayed due to steel issues according to Sal (if memory serves), so I have every confidence that if they're releasing something they're confident in it.


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