Spyderco Forums

So I'm noticing some talk on the forums about what blades are good for self defence and which are not. Some are designed from the ground up as a sd knife while others aren't but are considered semi sd knives. Where blade thickness is concerned it seems like the thicker the better for sd. I'm confused by this. I understand why you would want a thicker blade but I can think of some thin blade sd knives. P'kal, matriarch and civilian come to mind. So what's the deal? Personal preference? People have been saying the pm2 shouldn't be considered a sd knife because its too thin, but its thicker than the p'kal and its the same steel.

There is so much that goes into the concept of defense that the tool itself is rarely as important as the person and methodology. That said, tools are often the focus (IMHO) because:

* It's a controllable factor via credit card
* It's easier than spending time, money, and bruises in training

Regarding ballistics in general the more aggressive the cuts and entry holes the more potential for blood-loss. On that basis I don't know why a Para2 (and most Spydies) would be less than sufficient. A Schempp Rock would likely be better and a samurai sword better than that. Either way you are assuming the end of the fight would come via willing retreat or panic, blood loss, incapactiation (Ballistic Cutting), etc. Given two people with adrenalin pumping this could be minutes. Again, an acute edge with a wide blade generally will result in a larger wound...a longer blade can amplify the cut.

I think people should carry the tool they prefer to carry. In the select few encounters that would warrant lethal force (ie almost none) they can improvise with said cutting tool. Most of Spyderco's defense tools were designed for police officers, military, and high-statistic rape victims (Matriarch). They weren't designed for people who willingly enter into questionable situations knowing they can cut their way out. If so, they should create the "Lifetime Inmate".

Sorry...no offense to any knife makers but I feel they walk a moral line of selling to the tactical crowd (a VERY lucrative business) or remaining more subdued. Spyderco is by far one of the most mild out there. It's a tough decision to make but the bulk lot of the people buying defense knives (not all) are dealing with insecurity issues and trying to medicate with tools. What they really need is to put some padded gloves on and get punched in the face a few times, it's liberating. :D .


PS: I sincerely apologize if the above offends anyone with it's more mature content. I've put some thought into it simply transitioning mentally from one perspective to the other. I used to carry a knife that I could depend on, now I just carry one to open my bag of chips :p . Not a big fan of orange jumpsuits., lol.

Blerv pretty much nailed it.

As far as knife nuts talking about x being better than y for self defense I think it's 99% for peace of mind, not for any real world difference. is a 3mm thick 3" blade going to be a huge difference compared to a 4mm thick 4" blade? When you have an adrenaline dump and are fighting for your life? No.

The main thing that I think would actually be a real issue is ease of retrieval and opening(if a folder), and a secure grip. Other than that, all the little differences in thickness and blade profile are mostly moot. (obviously the more specialized knives like civilian/matriarch would take a completely different approach, I'm talking more about your typical "tactical" drop point, clip point, straight edge, whatever SD type knife)

I don't carry for defense. I'm sure my Military is up to the task, and I've had to think about the possibility of dispatching wild dogs and stuff before. But it's a last line type thing and it's not why I carry, and doubt it ever will be.

If I need a blade for self-defense I carry a .38.

Two really great responses! Thanks guys, I couldn't agree more. Lolz at the lifetime inmate.

If you ever pull out a blade for self defense how do you know that person doesn't have a gun?

Edit: A bit off topic and for that I apologize, just food for thought.

The chances of someone pulling a gun in Canada is very remote. I don't know that I would ever use a knife for self defence. I posted this more out of curiosity.

I used a kubotan once, it's about 3/8" thick and about as dull as physically possible :D it was as effective a deterrent as I can imagine, and I didn't have to worry about going to jail. I don't carry it anymore, and I have no doubt that I would have done as well (if not better) in the same situation without the kubotan.

Blerv, I don't think marketing to the tactical croud is immoral, but it's certainly counter productive :rolleyes:

Us mall ninjas need to buy ninja stuff too...

bpeezer wrote:Blerv, I don't think marketing to the tactical croud is immoral, but it's certainly counter productive :rolleyes:

I didn't mean it on a holy level; a better word would have been "irresponsible" but I guess you could say that about people who build motorcycles and casinos too. Knife makers can't assume everyone who buys their product is rational and some of the better ones aren't amping people up.

Knives are fun and tactical ones are really cool. I have a number purchased solely for defense. It was just a couple years ago that someone outlined the huge plot holes in effectiveness, justified use, etc. Now I carry what I want not what I need to feel safe. :)

PS: Kuboton/yawari are impact weapons and often specifically mentioned in carry laws. It's not only illegal to use them on someone (like knives) but you can get in trouble for even carrying them. Hands are totally legal, always deployed, and able to do almost as much damage.

Blerv wrote: Hands are totally legal, always deployed, and able to do almost as much damage.

Sometimes I carry mine concealed in gloves or pockets, but I've gone to the class.

Thanks for the clarification Blerv. I lived on a college campus at the time that allowed non-edged impact weapons for self defense due to an increase in attacks on and near campus. I agree with you 100% about hands :)

Oh scary times. Glad you were ok. There are always flashlight too :D .

Buck Knives I Like wrote:If you ever pull out a blade for self defense how do you know that person doesn't have a gun?

Edit: A bit off topic and for that I apologize, just food for thought.

I think that if you didnt have a knife and you tried to defend yourself with your hands the other person would still pull out his gun. With this in mind i would rather have a knife than just my hands.

JD

If someone comes after you the choices are a thick blade if you want to stab someone lots and lots of times and you don't want the blade to break off. OTOH, if you want to stick the blade between a couple of ribs then twist it so it breaks and is free to swim around inside the body cutting organs and tumors you may prefer a thin blade. Either way I don't think the mugger will want your wallet after that.

Jack

I would say thicker is better to a certain extent. Quite honestly my Szabo folder is my main edc but it's because i like having a comp lock knife thats bigger than a para. Sure it was marketed more for SD but i find it makes for a pretty tough folder. The original temperance was marketed as an SD knife and it excels at most outdoor task.

The thing about the «Lifetime inmate» is it doesn't come with a sheath, since it is usually sheathed up one's ahem...behind. Ease of reach is more or less fast but generally painful, with deployment being pretty darn slow depending on whether one's sheath has been the target of many inmates visitations or not. So, the longer you've been in prison, the faster you can draw the «Lifetime inmate». :)

Buck Knives I Like wrote:If you ever pull out a blade for self defense how do you know that person doesn't have a gun?

Edit: A bit off topic and for that I apologize, just food for thought.

If you're within that famous 21 foot bubble, all you have to worry about is a little bit of running. :p


For those of you that think you won't need to fight, here is a little food for thought. I think with how many random acts of violence we are seeing on the news, you are possibly gambling on that thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... mzI_5aj4Vs

Donut wrote:If you're within that famous 21 foot bubble, all you have to worry about is a little bit of running. :p


For those of you that think you won't need to fight, here is a little food for thought. I think with how many random acts of violence we are seeing on the news, you are possibly gambling on that thought.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... mzI_5aj4Vs

While I was merely joking above, I'll agree that random acts of violence i.e. road rage etc., appear to be on the rise. Just last summer, I was the target of road rage incident and God knows I live in a city where crime rate is low. Everything turned out fine and there was no violence involved. Ever increasing stress levels in the workplace are known to contribute to the development of mental illnesses (people acting out in an aggressive way etc.) and since stress doesn't seem to be on the decline, it is probably prudent to remain vigilant and somewhat prepared i.e. having the proper mindset, without becoming overly paranoid.

I would never want to be in a knife fight. Buy a can of mace if you live in a bad area.