Manix vertical play

[tenaciousj]

i just recieved a NIB (but second hand) Manix and upon inspection there is a very small amount of vertical play. when the blade is pressed down onto a hard surface as if cutting, the front of the lockbar (where it meets the back of the blade) lifts up just slightly, maybe half of 1mm. also there is a small lip on the forward edge of the lockbar where the blade makes contact. sort of difficult to see but it is apparently caused by the blade being opened, locking into place. i suppose this is all pretty standard but just wondering what your opinion is, can this very small amount of play be eliminated, possibly by rotating the lockbar pin? this knife was sold to me as "never been used" and i believe it, however the knife has been opened and closed more times than the original owner led me to believe as the small "lip" or "rolled edge" on the lockbar clearly shows some wear, is this something that is worthy of sending back to spyderco or does this fall under the category of "acceptable vertical blade play"

thanks

[yablanowitz]

Can't tell without letting the experts see it. At a guess, I'd say the seller's idea of unused was "I've never cut anything with it, I've just whipped it open ten thousand times." Inertial openings with a blade as heavy as the Manix's will peen parts in a hurry. I'd say send it to Spyderco, but don't get your hopes up. It may not be repairable.

[cyberspyder]

Tighten the pivot and the lockbar screw...helps get rid of the play.

[araneae]

Probably "acceptable vertical blade play". Its not totally uncommon on back locks & should not affect the safety of the knife.

[spoonrobot]

Can't tell without letting the experts see it. At a guess, I'd say the seller's idea of unused was "I've never cut anything with it, I've just whipped it open ten thousand times." Inertial openings with a blade as heavy as the Manix's will peen parts in a hurry. I'd say send it to Spyderco, but don't get your hopes up. It may not be repairable.

I'm the one that sold him the knife. I opened it a few times when I got it to check for function and then again when he asked me to check for vertical play and smoothness during the open/close cycle. I check for play by opening the knife and gently moving the blade in all directions, I found none but like most lockbacks I suspect it can be made to have play if one tries hard enough; not something I would do with a new knife for sale. The knife was never flicked open, nor dropped open. Check the engravings on the tang and look for wear from open and closing, there isn't any.

James, if you would feel more comfortable, send the knife back to me and I'll refund the purchase price. I'm sorry the knife wasn't exactly what you expected but I feel it was a very fair representation of what I described in the thread and our through our PMs. It was never carried and was in excellent condition; opened only a few times with no noticeable play.

Please let me know what you would like to do.

[zenheretic]

If it helps the OP any, by the description, it sounds like the very common and totally normal bit of verticle bladeplay common in the back locks.

[yablanowitz]

Sorry to insult you spoon. :o The lip he mentioned at the mating surface of the lockbar sounds like peening, and that is generally the result of inertial openings. It is also possible that this is one of the batch that had improper heat treatments on the lockbars which resulted in vertical play and lock failures. I still think he should send it in for that reason, but as the Manix is a discontinued model, they may not be able to do anything with it. If it is determined to be one of those with a defective lockbar, it probably shouldn't be used.

[ClockWork]

No need to worry. That amount of "Blade Play" is normal on a Spydie lockback.

Every spyderco lock back does that just a little bit. I think its necciscary for the lock to function propperly.
Even the Big lockback do it. My Mini-Manix, and my Chinook3 did it.

It should only be just the tiniest amount though. And just when you press down on a cutting surface. Any more might be cause for concern.

-Clock

[Franco G]

No need to worry. That amount of "Blade Play" is normal on a Spydie lockback.

Every spyderco lock back does that just a little bit. I think its necciscary for the lock to function propperly.

-Clock

You are wrong, it is NOT necessary for the lock to function properly. I have a Spyderco Caly jr. (ZDP-189) with NO blade play at all. No blade play at all - is it something to worry? Should I send it back to Spyderco?

Come on, guys, it is a matter of precision. One should tend to a zero tolerance - it means a lock pin should fit perfectly a hole in blade. Very simple physics.

Franco

[MountainManJim]

Come on, guys, it is a matter of precision. One should tend to a zero tolerance - it means a lock pin should fit perfectly a hole in blade. Very simple physics.

All manufactured parts have a tolerance. That's not physics, it's reality. There are at least 5 dimensions and 5 parts that would go into the dimensionals stack-up of tolerances for the locking up of a back-lock blade, hence a lot more than just one pin. For any manufacturer to sort all five parts to get a "zero tolerance" fit would be cost prohibitive.

I don’t know about Spyderco’s practices; I’m sure they do some sorting. But, there would be a point of diminishing returns. From attending the SFO sale of factory seconds, I know that Spyderco’s QA department culls knives with excessive vertical play; many of the seconds I pick-up have some. I agree that my new factory first quality knives do not have any vertical play. Hence, the suggestion here would be to let Spyderco determine if the slop of a given knife is within their target tolerance or not.

Jim

[The Deacon]

You are wrong, it is NOT necessary for the lock to function properly. I have a Spyderco Caly jr. (ZDP-189) with NO blade play at all. No blade play at all - is it something to worry? Should I send it back to Spyderco?

Come on, guys, it is a matter of precision. One should tend to a zero tolerance - it means a lock pin should fit perfectly a hole in blade. Very simple physics.

Franco

Simple physics perhaps, but difficult to achieve 100% of the time in a production environment without incurring an unacceptable amount of waste. I'd bet it's fairly difficult even for custom makers, hence the extremely small number of custom front locks compared with liner and frame locks. While you are correct that it is not necessary for proper function, a small amount of vertical is considered acceptable by Spyderco and is not cause for concern. If your Caly Jr. has none that's ok, but am sure there are plenty of them which do have a slight amount.

[spoonrobot]

I just wanted to be clear and end my involvement in this thread since this isn't a feedback forum for knife-bst.

I've rescinded my offer for a refund for several reasons, those that are always at the heart of private exchanges. Essentially I don't trust I'll be getting the same knife, in the same condition back. I know what I sent and am not new to this game.

I have also encouraged him to send it in to W&R, if there is indeed peening on the lock mechanism after less than a dozen openings than the knife was defective from the factory.

I would like to apologize for allowing this issue to cross forums, I should have handled it privately and shall exercise more discretion in the future.

[tenaciousj]

I just wanted to be clear and end my involvement in this thread since this isn't a feedback forum for knife-bst.

I've rescinded my offer for a refund for several reasons, those that are always at the heart of private exchanges. Essentially I don't trust I'll be getting the same knife, in the same condition back. I know what I sent and am not new to this game.

I have also encouraged him to send it in to W&R, if there is indeed peening on the lock mechanism after less than a dozen openings than the knife was defective from the factory.

I would like to apologize for allowing this issue to cross forums, I should have handled it privately and shall exercise more discretion in the future.

very dissappointed to hear this , this knife was EXPLICITLY sold to me as "NIB, never been used, or carried, is in EXCELLENT condition"

damaged lockbar is not "EXCELLENT condition"

never expected truth in advertising from someone with nothing to lose

[spydutch]

I guess this is the reason that selling/trading is not allowed on this forum

After that last post it's maybe better that Kristi puts a lock on this thread.

Let's keep it a nice and friendly forum shall we?

Enough said....

[v8r]

It sounds like the seller offered to refund the money back to the buyer.It sounds to me like the problem has been solved.Guys please keep it civil,that is why I frequent this forum. :)
My chinook 3 has some vertical blade play in it,and I am going to send it to Golden to have it checked out.The only reason I am sending it is to make sure it's safe. It has some peening on the lock bar and I have never wipped it open.I don't whip a knife open because I don't believe in abusing my tools. :)

[ghostrider]

I had a gray Caly Jr that did the same thing. I never flicked that knife open, and used it very gently (mainly for push cutting paracord). It was basically my "sheeple knife", so it didn't get much use.

After a little over a year, it developed a problem where when push cutting paracord, the lock bar would raise up 1/8-inch while the part of the tang that meets the lock bar would lower.

I called W&R and was told that it wasn't a safety issue, but I could send it back. I ended up giving the knife to someone else who had lost theirs.

I like the Caly Jr. design, but ever since that experience, along with all the other problems that design has had, I've since been turned off.

[Jay_Ev]

I like the Caly Jr. design, but ever since that experience, along with all the other problems that design has had, I've since been turned off.

The Calypso Jr. had other problems?

[gunmike1]

The Manix I have has slight vertical play, as do several of my Spyderco lock backs. None have ever come close to failing me, and only a 1/2 mm of movement really isn't much. Some of my Spydercos have imperceptable movement, but it is there on some microscopic level, and none of those knives have had any problems either. If you have any doubts send the knife to Golden, but I highly doubt there is anything wrong with it.

Mike

[cyberspyder]

Tighten the pivot and the lockbar screw...helps get rid of the play.

I'm going to reiterate on this AGAIN...hopefully you get the hint this time.

[ghostrider]

The Calypso Jr. had other problems?

I don't think it's worth getting into. They've been making the Caly 3 for a while now, and it sounds like people are quite happy with it.