Chinook II compared to III---Interview with James Keating

[tonydahose]

sure...the firrst one has the swedge (i hope i am describing that correctly) on the top of the blade from the point back towards the handle..in the curved part. the II one was hollowground..the III was flat ground...i think the first was the only one with a partially serrated blade

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: The II also had a partial serrated option. :spyder:

[Bolster]

Hello all. Since we are on the topic, I'll also share (with permission) an email I received from Mr. Keating regarding the differences between Chinook II and III, which I received July of 2007:

"The answers I'll give you are true. I believe that Mr. Glesser can also vouch that the things I will say are accurate. We spoke together during these phases.

You know that before much is done to a knife an idea is discussed extensively. The question arose of how we could improve Chinook performance versus cosmetic changes to it. IE: better cutting, lock strength, penetration etc... versus a rubber insert in the grips or such. Hopefully doing something that would not require retooling etc.

The best answer I could come up with was to mimic the MILITARY model and go w/ a thinner - more aggressive cutting edge. Taking the lead from butcher knives, scalping knives of the past, boning knives etc.. I was happy to settle on the simple flat grind. A great fixed blade example of this is the CS Master Hunter.

Hey, the Chinook III became lighter, lock strength was improved, sure as heck is sharper, cuts longer-deeper.

Ya know an airfoil?
Well a knife is an airfoil and the air is flesh.
Cutting deeply, swiftly yes, I stay away from chisel grinds- ugh! Messy-inefficient! Try cutting an elk ribcage, cut-seperate the ribs individually. Do it with a chisel grind, then a hollow grind, then a flat grind... you'll see what I mean.

The chisel grind will waver, leave a jagged, untrue line of meat. The hollow grind can develop a suction in flesh, it hits the grind-ridge and stops. The flat grind has no ridge, no impediments, just an edge. clean, fast and no snagging. Plus, for most modern men who are not whizzes at sharpening knives the flat grind is GREAT, easy to resharpen - much difficulty arises w/ other grinds for a novice sharpener.

The change was not for any financial reasons.
Just logical, simple product upgrade.

On the idea of one blade being better...
hollow X Flat X chisel etc ugh, it's not the knife anyhoo... it's who's behind the knife.

But, here I go into the flame (silly moth).
(I bet I'll git spanked for this opinion on the forums, but oh well, whats new eh? Everyman is a master thanx to the web.. heh heh)

Butchers are the all evidence we need... no re-inventing the wheel here, just follow their leader. Self defense? Hmm, using a knife on another in combat is a form of "butchering". As always each man has their version, claims that support their version, but I think flat grind has most benefit for me, mebbe not others, but for me.

Hmm, .. the man must match the blade.
The Chinook super-lock was designed for execution of the backcut. To support the pressures created by this action (don't want any accidental closures-failures eh?) It's a daubing motion, overhand, using the point as would a scorpion his telsun. I have a DVD out on this one move. It's a knife fighters "best friend", I kid you not. The Chinook specializes in this move.

I like the changes myself. Chinook III is the best yet!
Why, it's even more "pocket friendly".. the earlier versions did sorta wear on the jeans due to some rough spots. This grip has been sculpted more. I am proud of what Spyderco has made bearing my name. Many minds went into this.

OK, Thanx and let me know if there is anything else I can assist with.
For the latest updates and news regarding my products, seminars and articles stop by:
http://www.jamesakeating.com/maajak1.html

And Riddle of Steel is Sept 14-16.
Knife tactics, fantastic scenery, great food, world class makers and players... this is an invite if your of the mind.

Always
James Keating
Master at Arms, Comtech"

[stonyman]

Good interview. It is always good to hear the comments and reflections of their inventions. It just gives you a birdseye view of the model. Now the next thing is...............Go get one! Great knife. Take care and God Bless. :D

[Billy]

Great stuff and thanks for posting the comments of MAAJAK. I think I'm gonna go home tonight and give my Chinook III a big hug!! :rolleyes:

[Michael Bolton]

Is there any video on the 'net that shows an example of this technique? Sounds quite interesting. I can imagine that in a SD context, something like that would come as quite a surprise.

[zenheretic]

The difference?

Chinook I: Designed by Neanderthal man.
Chinook II: Designed by Cro Magnon man.
Chinook III: Designed by Modern Man.

[Michael Bolton]

I recall, before even hearing about the back cut technique, just looking/holding the Chinook III when I first got it and just going through a simple drill and thinking about how the up swept blade has different applications that aren't really possible with my numero uno favorite EDC the Yoji..

I don't EDC the Chinook but on "special" occasions, but its design is intuitive and the 'animal claw' description is quite accurate.

[Bolster]

The difference?
Chinook I: Designed by Neanderthal man.
Chinook II: Designed by Cro Magnon man.
Chinook III: Designed by Modern Man.

LOL! You very funny man, Zen.

[tonydahose]

The difference?

Chinook I: Designed by Neanderthal man.
Chinook II: Designed by Cro Magnon man.
Chinook III: Designed by Modern Man.

i guess i am parial to the neanderthals' work i guess :)

[bladese97]

:spyder: :spyder: :cool: :spyder: :spyder: Now this is one of the coolest threads I've veiwed :cool: That was a wealth of info, and it just makes me want to go buy Chinook's 1, and 11 so I can be....you know....Complete :rolleyes: :D

[KaliGman]

Is there any video on the 'net that shows an example of this technique? Sounds quite interesting. I can imagine that in a SD context, something like that would come as quite a surprise.

In actuality, this technique is practiced in many Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) and is defined in my particular art as an offline totsada or thrusting motion with a rip or cut out of the body. Anyone who had extensive knowledge or experience with a Filipino system or two should not be surprised by this technique--it is just one more part of their arsenal, and anything that I can learn Mr. Badguy can learn too.

[mrappraisit]

D-Roc - nice bump, that was an interesting read.

[Manix Guy 2]

Thanks Zac , this has made me rethink my thoughts on the Chinnok III , may look into one in the future . Regards MG2

[redback]

...the Chinook ... its design is intuitive and the 'animal claw' description is quite accurate.

I don't get this animal claw stuff. Animal claws are meant for grabbing, and tearing, not cutting. And in those few instances when they do cut, the inner edge is sharp or has serrations, not the outer edge as in the Chinook.

So the Chinook is not like an animal claw except in superficial ways.

Secondly, the Chinook is the sort of shape that is not that easy to sharpen. Curved blades are not fun to sharpen (I know, I have one or two). That shape of blade is good for things like skinning an animal (Bowie knives were used a lot for that). Combat knife? No.

[Michael Cook]

That shape of blade is good for things like skinning an animal (Bowie knives were used a lot for that). Combat knife? No.

:spyder: Haha! what does James Keating know? He's just one of America's best known and most influential knife teachers! :p :spyder:

[redback]

Hey, opinions differ. Judge my arguments on the merits. Looking at Mr Keating's website, he doesn't seem to be a genius.

[Michael Cook]

Hey, opinions differ. Judge my arguments on the merits. Looking at Mr Keating's website, he doesn't seem to be a genius.

:spyder: Genius? No, the guy's a maniac, but he is also an incredibly influential knife player. You simply can't find a respected American knife instructor who hasn't learned from him. :spyder:

[El Tigre]

The Chinook and Yojimbo ar the bests folders for MBC and SD than I have seen. James Keating and Michael Janich know what they do. They are world-wide famous by their martial abilities
Greetings.
"El Tigre"

[jaislandboy]

Hey, opinions differ. Judge my arguments on the merits. Looking at Mr Keating's website, he doesn't seem to be a genius.

Trolltide (sung to tune of Rawhide) - explicit lyrics by zenheretic:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... trollin%27


TRollin', Trollin', Trollin'
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Though the forums are swollen
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Trolltide!
Feelings and ego and wrenchin'
****-bent for attention
Wishin' my only friend was by my side.
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